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    Expend + Ikkatosh

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    CSpacian
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    Chaotic Username : CSpacian
    Chaotic Coins : 351

    Expend + Ikkatosh

    Post by CSpacian on Sun Mar 13, 2016 1:41 pm

    I was wondering about Ikkatosh, the Aich King's ability trigger and when it does.
    My main question was I was toying with combining him with someone like Qwun, Solitary Scout or Thar'lyn. And I was wondering if Qwun gets engaged could I immediately expend AIR lose all Elements and then gain 20 Energy.
    So basically I'm asking if his ability works like this:

    1) Ikkatosh checks Qwun for Elements and adds his ability to the chain
    2) Qwun expends and add his ability to the chain
    3) Qwun's ability activates
    4) Ikkatosh's ability doesn't activate because Qwun had elements at the exact beginning of combat.
    OR
    1) Ikkatosh's ability is added to the chain.
    2) Qwun expends and his ability is added to the chain.
    3) Qwun's ability activates.
    4) NOW Ikkatosh checks for Elements and Qwun gains 20 Energy.

    I'm asking cause I've always avoided Creatures with the 'Expend while engaged' cause I thought they were...less then the best, but I decided to try and create a deck which forces me out of my comfort zone and this is the best idea I had.
    Could Qwun be used with Ikkatosh?
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    Chiodosin1
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    Chaotic Username : Chiodosin1
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    Re: Expend + Ikkatosh

    Post by Chiodosin1 on Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:07 pm

    well this should explain everything this is from the chaotic comprehenvive rules under the steps of combat section


    Phases in the Combat Substep  
    The phases in the combat substep occur in the following order:  
    Engagement, Reveal Battlegear, Beginning of Combat, Initiative, Strike Phase  
    7.2.1.
    Engagement:  The two Creatures in combat are now considered “engaged” for the duration of the combat.  There is no priority point in this substep.  Effects which trigger when creatures become engaged wait until the Beginning of Combat substep to go on the burst.    
    7.2.2.
    Reveal Battlegear:  Any engaged Creature with a face down Battlegear has that Battlegear turned face up.  There is no priority point in this substep.  Effects which trigger when Battlgear is revealed wait until the Beginning of Combat substep to go on the burst.    
    7.2.3.
    Beginning of Combat:  Any effects which are generated by the beginning of combat, Creatures becoming engaged, Battlegear being revealed, or a Creature being intercepted are now added to the Burst with the Active player adding his/her effects first.  The Active player then receives priority.  When both players pass in order on an empty burst (see 8.2), the game progresses to the Initiative phase


    so as you see ikkatosh's triggered abitly goes into the burst of any flip effects, become engaged effects and start of combat effects. This is a burst so both players can respond to it with effects. since step 7.2.1 now treats both creatures as engaged Qwun can use his expend effect which then eventually resolves followed along with all the other effects including ikkatosh which when checking for no elements now sees Qwun has no element because he used it to pay for his ability and Qwun gains 20 energy.

    fun fact: because of this you can use something like Qwun sandstorm shroud to use Qwun's effect and then get your air right back if that's what your into


    ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== =====
    Whoa  Water Element you doing?
    You need to  Air Element out.
    Just because you were  Fire Element d doesn't mean you get to be mean.
    I mean is it even w Earth Element it?
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    CSpacian
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    Chaotic Username : CSpacian
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    Re: Expend + Ikkatosh

    Post by CSpacian on Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:31 pm

    Okay, cool. It was always these nitty gritty details of the game that I never bothered to learn, either the game did it or the other player generally knew.
    I almost never used Expend abilities unless the Creature wasn't engaged cause it always seemed like a waste to me. Like you're weakening your own Creature (some exceptions like Hiadrom exist) I then kind of thought of Aich King and Hiadrom and realized 90 Energy wasn't anything to laugh at so I wanted to build an entire deck around that strategy.
    But Expend was a relatively new ability so its kind of slim pickings. Qwun and Thar'Lyn were both two Creatures that I was debating about adding to the deck.
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    Chiodosin1
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    Chaotic Username : Chiodosin1
    Chaotic Coins : 919
    Location : Minnesota, US

    Re: Expend + Ikkatosh

    Post by Chiodosin1 on Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:37 pm

    you can always make your own expend with the expend gear


    ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== =====
    Whoa  Water Element you doing?
    You need to  Air Element out.
    Just because you were  Fire Element d doesn't mean you get to be mean.
    I mean is it even w Earth Element it?
    avatar
    CSpacian
    Rare

    Chaotic Username : CSpacian
    Chaotic Coins : 351

    Re: Expend + Ikkatosh

    Post by CSpacian on Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:48 pm

    Yeah, plan on using that with Lomma, DW to protect the Aich King and Mock'adyn.
    I figured my choices were either going with something like that or a Bodal's Dagger deck. Which is kind of cool with Creatures like Taffial to recycle some of the stronger Bodal's Dagger attacks (*cough* Primal Smash *cough*).

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