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    Question about Creatures that count as 2+ tribes and "if you only control" mugics

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    TheOneVeyronian
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    Question about Creatures that count as 2+ tribes and "if you only control" mugics

    Post by TheOneVeyronian on Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:00 pm

    So I have a bit of a question relating to Mugic that checks all Creatures for their tribe and what happens if one of my creatures counts as two tribes. I know it's not a very common situation when playing (but not impossible I suppose), but I'm playing around with creating fan-cards with creatures that are multi-tribal so I would like some clarification on when Creatures count as more than one tribe and their interaction with something like the TotT "if you only control" Mugics.

    So say I had an all-Overworld deck with Vidav Master Strategist, and I used Vidav's ability to make another Overworlder also count as, say, an Underworlder (because I also have Loderool in this deck and I want his Fire 5 bonus for example). That ability resolves. Then in a new Burst, I cast a Fanfare of Elemental Champions. Though all my Creatures are Overworlders, because one of them also counts as an Underworlder from using Vidav's ability, would the "if you only control Overworlders" part of the Mugic trigger and I get the "Element 5" benefit, or would I only get the Element gain because one of my creatures counts as both an Overworlder and an Underworlder, despite all my Creatures primarily being Overworlders?

    Also, sort-of related, does General's Standard work differently to the Vidav MS ability, in that it actually "overwrites" the printed tribe of a card with the tribe you choose? I used to think the tribe General's Standard granted was in addition to equipped Creature's printed tribe, but comparing General's Standard wording to Vidav MS' wording, it sounds like General's Standard actually overrules a Creature's printed tribe and imprints the chosen Tribe instead. Which way is correct?

    Hopefully this makes some sort of sense, I don't recall seeing this aspect of the rules being covered so maybe somebody who knows the rules for most situations Chaotic throws up can help me out here Smile
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    Chiodosin1
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    Re: Question about Creatures that count as 2+ tribes and "if you only control" mugics

    Post by Chiodosin1 on Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:19 pm

    if a creature is more than one tribe it is considered both of those tribes for any effect that care, for example if you had a creature who counted as both an overworlder and an underworlder it would be an overworlder for something like harmonious highsong, as well as an underworlder for something like whepcrack, being both doesn't lessen either one. think of it like a guy who can speak english and spanish he can be in a place where people only speak spanish even if he has another language too. also note that if you used ode of obscurity a creature who was still part danain (like a danain mipedian say) would still count as a danain and not give a boost to the mugic.

    you are right on the generals standard the different wording is intentional it overwrites whatever tribe the creature is making it only the tribe you choose for standard.


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    TheOneVeyronian
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    Re: Question about Creatures that count as 2+ tribes and "if you only control" mugics

    Post by TheOneVeyronian on Sun Oct 30, 2016 4:13 pm

    Chiodosin1 wrote:if a creature is more than one tribe it is considered both of those tribes for any effect that care, for example if you had a creature who counted as both an overworlder and an underworlder it would be an overworlder for something like harmonious highsong, as well as an underworlder for something like whepcrack, being both doesn't lessen either one. think of it like a guy who can speak english and spanish he can be in a place where people only speak spanish even if he has another language too. also note that if you used ode of obscurity a creature who was still part danain (like a danain mipedian say) would still count as a danain and not give a boost to the mugic.

    you are right on the generals standard the different wording is intentional it overwrites whatever tribe the creature is making it only the tribe you choose for standard.

    Okay, I know it would be considered both tribes for effects that care, that I have no problem with. It might just be the wording chosen for things like Fanfare of Elemental Champions or Harmonious Highsong, but when it says "if you ONLY control OverWorlders", it sounds like all your Creatures have to be Overworlders and only Overworlders.

    If say you had the example I gave in my first post but instead I had one creature that was Mipedian (and the rest was Overworlders) and I used Vidav MS' ability to make it also count as an Overworlder then cast Fanfare of Elemental Champions, would I get the Element 5 bonus or not? The wording would suggest I wouldn't because the text says "if you only control Overworlders" but technically I control Overworlders and Mipedians (so not exclusively OW), even if all my creatures count as Overworlders (if that wasn't intended, I think the "only controls" cards would have received errata to say "if all creatures you control are" instead). That's what I wanted to check Smile

    Note I also tend to overthink the rules wording on cards as is probably evident here. I mean the other day when I was creating a Rhyme of the Reckless style rule for a Warbeast, I came up with "when this makes an attack deal X damage to it where X is the damage the attack dealt" - wasn't sure if the value of X included any damage modifiers like Element X or the Xerium Armour ability or not Hehe
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    Chiodosin1
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    Re: Question about Creatures that count as 2+ tribes and "if you only control" mugics

    Post by Chiodosin1 on Sun Oct 30, 2016 6:33 pm

    TheOneVeyronian wrote:
    Okay, I know it would be considered both tribes for effects that care, that I have no problem with. It might just be the wording chosen for things like Fanfare of Elemental Champions or Harmonious Highsong, but when it says "if you ONLY control OverWorlders", it sounds like all your Creatures have to be Overworlders and only Overworlders.

    If say you had the example I gave in my first post but instead I had one creature that was Mipedian (and the rest was Overworlders) and I used Vidav MS' ability to make it also count as an Overworlder then cast Fanfare of Elemental Champions, would I get the Element 5 bonus or not? The wording would suggest I wouldn't because the text says "if you only control Overworlders" but technically I control Overworlders and Mipedians (so not exclusively OW), even if all my creatures count as Overworlders (if that wasn't intended, I think the "only controls" cards would have received errata to say "if all creatures you control are" instead). That's what I wanted to check Smile

    Note I also tend to overthink the rules wording on cards as is probably evident here. I mean the other day when I was creating a Rhyme of the Reckless style rule for a Warbeast, I came up with "when this makes an attack deal X damage to it where X is the damage the attack dealt" - wasn't sure if the value of X included any damage modifiers like Element X or the Xerium Armour ability or not Hehe

    I see what your saying but if every creature you control has the overworld tribe there all overworlders and you get the effect having another tribe doesn't make a creature not an overworlder.

    rhyme will deal however much damage the attack ends up dealing to the creature after all effects that effect the damage are applied. example on my first attack I play consuming flame with chaor the feice, you have maxxor protector of perim with xerium armor and were fighting at underworld collusiem. you play ryhme targeting the consuming flame it resolves and does nothing for now, next the attack resolves and we calculate the damage, first the attack itself is deal 15 damage, then anything that increases damage is put on, in this case chaors fire 10 and the collusiems 10 damage putting the attack at 35, next we look at anything that subtracts damage, which there is none, and finally we look at anything that sets the damage to a certain amount, in this case xerium armor which sets the damage to 20 since its over 20. now that the damage is figure out the attack deals 20 damage to your creature, this triggers the effect of rhyme starting a new burst with any other effects that triggered from the previous bursts effects (such as maxxor's ability) assuming no other effects, they resolve and deal 20 damage to chaor.

    that was the long way of describing it but just figured I'd go through every detail fast version is rhyme does however much the attack ends up actually dealing in the end.


    ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== =====
    Whoa  Water Element you doing?
    You need to  Air Element out.
    Just because you were  Fire Element d doesn't mean you get to be mean.
    I mean is it even w Earth Element it?

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    Re: Question about Creatures that count as 2+ tribes and "if you only control" mugics

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