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    FFA

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    Chiodosin1
    Ultra Rare

    Chaotic Username : Chiodosin1
    Chaotic Coins : 898
    Location : Minnesota, US

    FFA

    Post by Chiodosin1 on Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:46 am

    people wanted to do an 4 player FFA type game mode so I did some thinkin and this is what I decided would work the best


    you can do any size deck you want as usual but I recommend 6v6 for a more classic game or 3v3 for a faster game (since more players means longer gameplay)
    I don't really wanna look through a banlist right now Hive unsung would be there for sure because that combo is dumb and probably najarin since he scales real scary in multiplayer. you could also put the usual cards people aren't fond of on there too, zamool, melody of the meek, bodal ect. however I feel the banlist can be pretty small because having just the best cards can sometimes just paint a target on your head and this a format where you can't really win a 3v1 even if you have what in 1v1 would be considered an OP deck.

    the biggest change to the rules are with how movement and beginning of combat work.
    first randomly decide who goes first as usual that player reveals a location.
    in order to get 4 creature in to battle at once though instead of moving after beginning of turn effect finish players proceed directly to combat.
    each player selects 2 creatures they control with the following limits: creatures on your opponents board are chosen first if possible followed in your front row if possible followed by the 2nd row and only choosing a creature your back row if you have no other options. if you control rothar FN he must be chosen if able regardless of the row creatures who cannot move cannot be chosen a creature with swift can be chosen regardless of what row its on. the player who's turn it is selects first then the selection goes clockwise.
    each player then must determines randomly which of the 2 creatures will enter combat. if one of the creature has defender and could defend the other (ex:a somnort and another creature with water) you may choose to have the defender enter without random selection. once each creature is chosen combat begins.
    each player does innative as usual deterime an order all the way down (1st-4th) if any creatures have a tie choose randomly which creature is above the other.
    each player then draws and chooses and attack card to play face down.
    once each player has chosen there attacks starting with the player who is 4th and going up each player puts there attack on the burst and chooses a target for the attack. if an attacks effects would effect a player in ways beyond the engaged creature such as supercooled rain or heptagon hail they effect only the player who's creature is attacked.
    the burst resolves in reverse as usual meaning the player who's 1st will have there attack resolve 1st, remember an attack will still resolve even if the creature who played it is killed first.
    players may not play other effects until all attacks are put on the burst.
    for playing mugic an abilies the player who's turn it is has the first chance to play mugic and abilies, it then goes to that players left. whenever a player plays an effect the player on there left gets the first chance to respond and so on around. when all four players pass without playing an effect the burst resolves as normal.
    during combat all creatures are considered to be on the space they were on before being chosen for combat.
    if any effect would designate doing something to an opponent but does not target (ex hearing tainted) you must choose which opponent to use the effect on when it resolves.

    once 1 or fewer creatures are left combat ends and players proceed to the movement phase.

    starting with the active and going left each player gets to move 1 creature, all spaces on the front row of battleboards are considered adjacent to all other spaces on the front of other battleboards. after each player moves one creature the first player may move a 2nd creature and so on, until every player is done moving creatures. the turn then passes to the next player to the left.

    the game ends when all players except one have no creatures remaining or if a win the game effect resolves.


    so that's what I got 4 player FFA chaotic that's technically functional (I think) idk what sort of weird card problems this creates but if you think of any I'll be happy to answer them on a card for card basis and any other questions too. any improvements to the format would also be welcome.


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    Whoa  Water Element you doing?
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    Chiodosin1
    Ultra Rare

    Chaotic Username : Chiodosin1
    Chaotic Coins : 898
    Location : Minnesota, US

    Re: FFA

    Post by Chiodosin1 on Fri Jun 30, 2017 2:05 am

    just gonna stick some suggestions I got here maybe you think there better maybe not.

    1. having players choose who to attack in secret then revealing without knowing who's attacking who, the pro is less power to the first player(you may decide you want that of course) the con is hidden and simultaneous reveals can be a pain to have to do for every attack especially online.
    2. having players attacks all resolve at the same time, pro is it again favors the player who goes first less once again. The con is it removes going first aka inntiative completely and also creates some rules problems with effects that care about the "next attack" (I'm pretty sure you could settle these with your group though) it also makes it possible to have tie games unless you create a new tiebreaker.
    3. if 3 players play an attack on the same creature the attack when damage is calculated only the attack with the middle value gets to deal its damage (ties would 1 pick at random). pros are it prevents players from ganging up on a player and knocking them out of a battle right away. cons are it discourages or prevents players from teaming up on player who is at a major advantage and if you are using the preselection method there is a chance players attack togther at random an are punshed for it (you might want that) if every player chooses randomly its about a 14% chance

    anyway I think option 1 is a good thing if you can get around the annoyance aspect I could go either way with 2 but I think I prefer having innative matter and preventing ties. I'm pretty down on number 3 however since I think it takes away the free for all nature and while getting ganged up on is rough so is having your attacks fizzle or not being able to attack an obvious threat.

    but no testing has been done so figure out what works best for you


    ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== =====
    Whoa  Water Element you doing?
    You need to  Air Element out.
    Just because you were  Fire Element d doesn't mean you get to be mean.
    I mean is it even w Earth Element it?
    avatar
    atnorman
    newb

    Chaotic Username : atnorman
    Chaotic Coins : 2

    Re: FFA

    Post by atnorman on Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:47 am

    @Chiodosin1 wrote:I'm pretty down on number 3 however since I think it takes away the free for all nature and while getting ganged up on is rough so is having your attacks fizzle or not being able to attack an obvious threat.

    Since this was my idea, let me defend it for a second or two. The reasoning behind it is the following.

    3.1. In an obvious threat situation people can still gang up two at a time, and again, the worst case scenario is that the middle attack goes through, while the obvious threat is trying to whittle away at three healthbars.

    3.2. Consider instead a scenario where there isn't an obvious threat, and the four creatures in combat are effectively equal in combat strength. Not precisely equal, but close enough that no one player feels like they are out of the game. Now, one round of attacks later, one player has less energy than the rest. What's the optimal strategy now? My contention is this. As a player in this game, I want to minimize uncertainty. I know I'm in the game with the other two players, I can still compete, but this guy with the lowest energy can play spoiler/kingmaker. He can attack three different people, with 2-20 different attacks, depending on how you view it, and the attacks might have different effectiveness on different creatures. That is a disaster waiting to happen, I want him gone. If I'm ever in a 1v1v1v1 that's even, I want to get it down to an even 1v1v1 as fast as possible, and then to an even 1v1 as fast as possible, to minimize the uncertainty for me as a player. So if one person dips down after the first attack, the optimal strategy for the other three is to get rid of him as fast as possible. Is this a somewhat idealized example? Sure. But I think the idea is that we want to have combat where all creatures are by and large on the same level, at least in the early stages of the game, which can have massive snowball effects on later stages.

    Similarly I suggested option 2. My comment here will merely be that I proposed solutions to the concerns in the discord channel, and suggested, for example, that initiative is replaced by another effect, such as, "gain 10 energy". "Gain 20 in one discipline". "Draw an attack card and discard an attack card". The specifics can be fleshed out at a later date, but I do want to note that the entire initiative mechanic isn't scrapped, just changed heavily.

    In addition, I have two other possible changes, one of which I discussed in the discord server, one of which I did not. Let's call them 4 and 5, they both refer to how combat begins in this game type.

    For both we consider a battleboard where ever person's board is attached to every person's board in a similar manner to a normal 2 player game.

    4. The naive option. You play the game as normal, with considering a hypothetical battleboard across from you, you move into one space on it, and every opponent's creature in that corresponding space on their battleboard enters combat. You choose one to actually move to at the beginning of the battle. The effects of this are rather obvious, imo, range becomes incredibly strong, and so defender becomes strong as well, I'd suspect there'll be no viable team comp that doesn't have range/swift or defender, likely both. One problem that emerges is later in the game the corresponding spaces on other boards might be empty, or might have your own creatures in them. Is this a good thing? It slows down the game, certainly, you don't have 1v1v1v1 combat every round. But it also leaves some players out while a 1v1 is going on. I'm honestly not sure. But I do prefer the second option.

    5. The complicated option. Each creature on the board has y movement, where y = (number of players - 1 + x), where x comes from "swift x". And with this y movement they must pick out three creatures to fight against, one from each opponent. So at the beginning of the game this is the same for creatures sans swift. The move one space into player A's front line, a creature there, target it. Then move to player B's front line, and similarly with player C. How precisely this is implemented I will discuss shortly. If they cannot or do not the player(s) they snubbed, who didn't get a creature "tagged" by this selection can pick his own creature for the 1v1v1v1 combat. (nb: Do we want them to have to? I'm not certain, this would enforce 1v1v1v1 battles throughout the entire game, is it reasonable to have a player who wasn't chosen decide to sit a battle out? I dunno. I would think not, but further discussion is merited.) This again boosts range/swift and defender, but less so than option 4, and to varying amounts I'll discuss shortly. In addition, this gives incentive to not just dive into one player's backline if you make a hole into their army early. Because then you might not get to creatures the other player controls, and they get to choose who they want in the fight. Now, let's discuss precisely how the movement works. There are two options.

    5.1. When a target is selected, new target selection starts from your attacking creature's original square. So let's give an example or two, this is a bit arcane. Ere in a 6v6v6v6 match will have 7 movement and range. Let's put Ere in our frontline and have him go on the attack. He swings back to player A's backrow, the furthest one back, that takes him 3 movement. He then is "returned" to his original space and then swings back to player B's backrow, another 3 movement. He's now down to 1 movement, so grabs a frontliner from player C. So this is Ere v backliner v backliner v frontliner. Second example, let's say Ere starts out on the front line of an opposing battleboard, player A's, this is your second round attacking, and he starts there. He can go to the backline of player B and C as before, and then has 1 movement left, which he uses to target someone in the midline of player A. So that's then Ere v backliner v backliner v midliner. Third, you have someone without range/swift, a frontliner, same set up as example 2, grabs a midliner from A, and then two frontliners, so that's frontliner vs frontliner vs frontliner vs midliner on turn 2. In this instance range/swift and defender are weaker than in 4, but still very, very strong. And opening up a hole in the front and attacking through the hole to the middle isn't punished.

    5.2. When attack target is selected new target selection begins from the square of the last target selected. So example 1 is now Ere expends 3 movement to get to a backliner of player A then expends 3 to get to the frontliner of player B, and then one to get to a frontliner of player C. So we have Ere vs frontliner vs frontliner vs backliner. Example 2 is Ere spends 1 movement to get to midliner from A, 3 movement to get to a midliner of player B, and then 3 movement to get to the midliner from player C. This is Ere vs midliner vs midliner vs midliner on turn 2. Example 3, frontliner can't attack that midliner if he wants to avoid an opponent picking a creature because that's 1 movement back to it, then two movement to the frontline of B or C. So it'll be frontliner vs frontliner vs frontliner vs frontliner on turn 2. Option 5.2 makes range/swift and defender weaker than both 4 and 5.1, but in exchange it punishes you slightly for making a whole in the front and attacking to the middle too soon, it encourages cleaning up the front lines more than either 4 or 5.1 do.

    I personally am torn between 5.1 and 5.2, but would love to have more feedback, and if all else fails, at least I put some possible ideas out there.

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    Re: FFA

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      Current date/time is Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:36 am