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    So, what were some things you thought Chaotic could have done to make it better?

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    Blitser
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    Re: So, what were some things you thought Chaotic could have done to make it better?

    Post by Blitser on Sun Aug 31, 2014 10:48 pm

    I've had the collection to do some serious damage with the Danians for years, but they're not my playstyle. I prefer simpler strategies and gimmicks in my decks. Not to say my decks aren't powerful anyway.


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    BlzvSprayTan
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    Re: So, what were some things you thought Chaotic could have done to make it better?

    Post by BlzvSprayTan on Mon Sep 01, 2014 1:04 am

    @Terabyte wrote:Also, Blz, that gallery made me hurt. I went to right click the card images so I could pull up the opposing deck and cried a little inside.

    Could you please post the specifics in the Gallery topic? It is in the anouncements forums.

    Redirect:
    I believe Mipedians can be harder to play than Danians in masters. Danians tend to have less risks than the other tribes.


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    Terabyte
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    Re: So, what were some things you thought Chaotic could have done to make it better?

    Post by Terabyte on Mon Sep 01, 2014 1:37 am

    It's not a glitch I was referring to. I was talking about nostalgia feels hurt. When in the Dromes you could right click (if I'm remembering right) and it would blow up the card image similar to how you have Illexia focused in order to view the MC count. I was just referencing how I muscle memoried that and was disappointed when my efforts were in vain.
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    Oracle Afjak
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    Re: So, what were some things you thought Chaotic could have done to make it better?

    Post by Oracle Afjak on Sat Nov 15, 2014 2:11 am

    First off, apologies for the necropost and rant. There are a lot of things that I think were done wrong and right. Of the many things that happened wrong (lack of certain specialties, weakness of some "classics", ), but the biggest thing that irks me is the setting of confines. Just dividing this into spoilers so you don't have to suffer the full thing if you don't want.


    Lack of Certain Attacks Specializations:
    As stated earlier on, attacks aren't forgiving in trying to excel at a specific area. If I wanted to run mono-earth vein of expertise, I have Clean Slide, Earth Pulse, Fear Fight, Granite Balls, Gravel Grind, Grounding Grapple, Infectious Implosion, Mineral Mayhem, Paraseed, Petrifying Power, Pillar Quake, Sunder Ground, Terrantula Tackle, Terraport, Trampling Tackle, Vacuum Hemisphere, and Vine Snare (these are ones without any formal checks/challenges/fails/elements than just earth). Sounds like a "long" list, right? Take into account that there's only three 0BPs, only one practical among them; eight 1BPs that are mostly angled to either Danians or Mipedians; and sporadic high BP cards that are STILL angled in some cases. That's just mono-earth. What if I wanted to make an oddball fire/courage deck? I could theoretically mix and match some fire and courage cards individually, but there are no cards that actually combine those two like Fearocity or Ash Torrent.

    Tribal Cliches Became Hardset:
    Every set past Silent Sands began initiating these ideas of what the tribes had to do. Take a look at the Underworld. How many of you have seen a few dozen burn decks that were all fire/power/UW? Answer: Every. Single. One of us. Kopond HMOTH is a cliche stacked on a cliche to be useful in only one kind of deck (some call that specialty, but still). But you know what is the Underworld's greatest hidden strength? Debuff and control. Both of these work to deadly effect for my kind of player: the griefer. The guy who removes your elements, your disciplines, and laughs at your pitiful attempts to delay your inevitable demise. The one who in the spirit of Van Bloot's cult makes you suffer in agony while he makes popcorn. Bloot SoA and Dissonance of Distraction with his cronies like Galmedar and Krekk PR can troll the game with tormenting teamwork against anything that ain't a dagger (they smash your gear with glee), but no one uses this strategy anymore.

    More dirt against the devs in terms of elements and disciplines. My tribe, the Overworld, is pretty good with any element or discipline they choose, and often make for the easiest to mix into another tribe because of it. But let's go back to the Mipedians. Sure, you're fleet footed and have mastered air and earth, which embodies the shifting sand. But what of the Mipedians of old who learned the art of water in their lush jungle? Surely they have to be wise for their ways of staunch conservation. Or the few Mipedians of today who learned the power of fire under the punishing sun? Are they not courageous for pioneering such a destructive and unpredictable force? We're getting very little mix of disciplines and elements outside of tribal cliches, and it's bugging the heck outta me.

    There were confines like that implied and staged by they who made the cards, but also many confines set by players. I guarantee everyone here has run into at least one Mipedian deck running Melody of Mirage/Fighter's Fanfare/Aegis Airia as "staples". After all, the Mipedians are masters of illusion. I, on the other hand, can tell you that for every time Melody of Mirage has saved one of my guys' hide in a tight spot, Melodic Might has saved me too. The Mipedians also happen to be hunters honed to perfection who specialize in choosing their actions and engagements carefully. An adverse location ability that will get your army killed can be neutralized with Notes of Neverwhere, a Bladez with Husk Armor can be coded by Gear Glissando after a few strikes, and Maxxor PoP is a billion times less scary when he gets hit with Trills of Diminution.

    Overlooked Cards:
    Another example is how many overlooked gems we have because everyone's so quick to jump on the popular things. People on TCO are coming to respect and fear Garv because of how Ketac123 and I have been using him for offense and defense. I flip up two Girgeth Tars, that's 40 points of healing on deck, or two counters I can throw onto Drabe if Plasmarrow disables healing. He combines Garv with Ilx and a Mipedian Fulgurite to get a real shelf life on some sickening air power. I'll give you another one: Lobanne. This little muge has become just as good as, if not better than, Karraba in many situations. Pretty much every good fighter that people use after AU (except Aivenna to my memory) has at least one element on them. How many strike and burn decks are going to be equipped to take on creatures going into the fight with 120 energy (Dibanni working overtime)? More than once? With healing to regenerate them? And how many of those burns/strikes with fire or air and good speed bother to lay their hands on an Inferno Gust anymore?

    The Dreaded Crutch:
    Moreover on the idea of confines is that I fear certain cards may be becoming crutches or bad necessities. I don't mean crutch as an insult like something that's always needed to win; more like something that a deck ends up being forced to use these things lest they be torn apart. I find myself being horribly guilty of this on multiple occassions: I have an entire deck centered on Zamool's ability as a temporary crutch for Arkanin, and it disgustingly remains undefeated even now (that isn't a challenge). But how many burners have become so reliant on the little zombie-ninja who doesn't mesh well with his tribe at all in terms of stats? How many decks have been forced to run Xerium Armor because of how much payload can be delivered by attacks when they miss out on other gear? As mentioned earlier, how many attack decks have had Primal Smash, Invader's Tactics, or Marksman's Prep for their versatility instead of fitting with the deck? So many self acclaimed "pro" players run these cards in every deck and felt that you had to run them too for their so called standards. That got into people confusing what you have/use with "skill", but that's an entirely separate and longer rant altogether. Like the words "need" and "want" were synonymous.

    TL;DR It's been a lack of creativity on both the devs' and players' parts that killed some more room for unorthodox things, plus certain cards with people always "needing". But these are only the ideas of an old fool. Gonna cut it off here before I manage to get even more out of hand. Unsure


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    Marrillian
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    Re: So, what were some things you thought Chaotic could have done to make it better?

    Post by Marrillian on Sat Nov 15, 2014 2:29 pm

    Afjak∞ wrote:First off, apologies for the necropost and rant. There are a lot of things that I think were done wrong and right. Of the many things that happened wrong (lack of certain specialties, weakness of some "classics", ), but the biggest thing that irks me is the setting of confines. Just dividing this into spoilers so you don't have to suffer the full thing if you don't want.

    TL;DR It's been a lack of creativity on both the devs' and players' parts that killed some more room for unorthodox things, plus certain cards with people always "needing". But these are only the ideas of an old fool. Gonna cut it off here before I manage to get even more out of hand. Unsure
    Even though this is far more elaborate than I would have done, I completely agree with what's been said here. But in all tcgs there are "staple" cards for each archtype, so I don't think that's too much that can be changed. But I know there were a very limited amount of combinations Attacks were very limited, I ended up making some of my functional decks AROUND the attacks instead of the other way around which I think defeats the purpose of the game. 

    If a mainstream card game is created where true diversity exists, I will give them so much credit and definitely invest. But all in all, Chaotic's cards never promoted diversity even from the beginning. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember seeing a ton of UW fire/power/damage decks in DoP.


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    Blitser
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    Re: So, what were some things you thought Chaotic could have done to make it better?

    Post by Blitser on Sat Nov 15, 2014 7:15 pm

    Over time attack cards were becoming easier and easier to use though. If all the attacks we ever needed were available from day one then the only way to make us buy new ones would be raising the scale for damage, a la Yugioh powercreep.

    Every set has a few underused gems lying in wait to break away from the standard archetypes of their tribe.


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    Re: So, what were some things you thought Chaotic could have done to make it better?

    Post by Marrillian on Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:25 pm

    You have a good point there. I didn't consider that angle. Hmm job security XD


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    BlzvSprayTan
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    Re: So, what were some things you thought Chaotic could have done to make it better?

    Post by BlzvSprayTan on Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:44 pm

    I'd have to agree with all besides your second point, to an extent. When it comes to tribal clichés, it is going to have to end up that way. If they were to allow mipedian fire decks besides a very niche deck, it could begin to override the decks that make sense: earth/air/speed stuff. They HAD to dump focus into what was mainstream per tribe because one thing was going to come out on top: so it might as well be what makes the most sense.


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    Re: So, what were some things you thought Chaotic could have done to make it better?

    Post by Blitser on Sun Nov 16, 2014 7:13 pm

    @BlzvSprayTan wrote:I'd have to agree with all besides your second point, to an extent. When it comes to tribal clichés, it is going to have to end up that way. If they were to allow mipedian fire decks besides a very niche deck, it could begin to override the decks that make sense: earth/air/speed stuff. They HAD to dump focus into what was mainstream per tribe because one thing was going to come out on top: so it might as well be what makes the most sense.

    I'm sort of in that half-agree area myself. The archtypes are there for a reason, and they serve the game well. Like if you want to run an UW deck about healing you should learn to suck it up and move to the right tribe regardless of whether or not it has your favourite creatures.

    What I was getting at is that there's lesser known decktypes for each tribe. A great example would be how the Mipedians came to have a wonderful library of cards that increase recklessness damage on their opponents. That strategy started with Ribbian, but has only gotten better since then. Enre-Hep, Levitaar, Akkalbi, Aria of Enragement, etc.


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    Re: So, what were some things you thought Chaotic could have done to make it better?

    Post by Oracle Afjak on Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:08 pm

    Astrum Somnus wrote:What I was getting at is that there's lesser known decktypes for each tribe. A great example would be how the Mipedians came to have a wonderful library of cards that increase recklessness damage on their opponents. That strategy started with Ribbian, but has only gotten better since then. Enre-Hep, Levitaar, Akkalbi, Aria of Enragement, etc.

    When someone mentions a burn deck, Underworld comes to everyone's mind first, then Mipedian or the rarebird Danian burn. You know how many Overworld burn decks I've seen? One: mine. I ran Vexing Waveform, Rhyme of the Reckless, Akkrean and even the Hornsabre at a point. It would be nice to have more opportunities to break away from tribal norms, which might also allow for better tribe mixing. Do I expect my puny Overworld fire/wisdom burn to do as well as most Underworld fire/power ones? No. But I was much more proud of that than any cookie cutter UW burn I could ever build. It's nice to make something like that as opposed to choosing an archetype and playing Mad Libs with the same vanilla selection of cards. It's called "Chaotic", not "Rigidity".


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    Re: So, what were some things you thought Chaotic could have done to make it better?

    Post by plokjhgfdsa on Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:16 am

    To be honest, what made chaotic fun was the fact that it had boundaries set in place so that you couldnt just 'buy' your way through the game. They made each tribe having weaknesses and reduced variety to ensure that you couldnt just break the game. If overworld had an effective burn system, whats stopping a player just making an overworld heal+ burn deck that would never lose? I feel the set tribe boundaries created a fairer opportunity for all players.

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