MAX STATS

Want to trade Chaor, Max e, c !

Do you recognize this quote? We saw things like this a lot on the forums, in drome chat, and irl chaotic linger; whether it was looking for(LF), trading(WTT), buying(WTB) or selling(WTS), we all have heard of a max stat. What does max stat mean?

Well, on each creature card there are 4 'disciplines', and an energy value. The four disciplines include Courage, Power, Wisdom and Speed, and these values aid in use of Attacks. One or more disciplines can be manipulated on an Attack card by means of Challenges, Checks, Fails, and the sort. All card types(locations, mugic, etc) can include Disciplines, whether it be enhancing your Creatures Disciplines, or using them for effects like Bonding Battlesong. There are even more complex effects such as Gan'trak's.

Disciplines on creatures can be anywhere from 0(Krekk) to 160(Blazvatan)*, and each of these values vary by 20 from card to card. For example: Heptadd is a pretty balanced card. Each of his 4 disciplines can range from 40 to 60. This means that his average courage, etc, is 50; however, there is one more 'stat'(or statistic) that has a range of values: energy.

*Aa'une Avatar is an exception to this rule, because each of his disciplines is a strict 200.

Energy isn't exactly the same as disciplines, because the range on energy is 10. Taking Heptadd as an example once again, he has Energy values from 45 to 55, so: his average energy is 50. Have you ever wondered why the energy has a range of 10 rather than 20? (If you haven't wondered: you are now!)

Well let's think about this. Energy takes more of a role than just being attack damage. Disciplines do nothing but give you attack damage*, and they are not necessary to do attack damage: keep this in mind. Energy, on the other hand, is always a key factor of gameplay no matter what kind of attack cards you are including in your deck. Whether your running a disciplines attack deck, elemental attack deck, bodals dagger attack deck or a combination, Energy is always going to be there! Since energy is more important, they had a smaller range on Energy than disciplines. But why, then, do we even need a range on Energy?

*Gan'trak is an exception to this rule, but he has many counters.

I can't tell you how disappointed it can be to get a card with minimum energy, sometimes its even a pretty big let down to get average Energy. We have a feeling that we NEED max energy on all creatures in our deck, unless we are trying to get our creature to have a meek value. We feel threatened by lower-than-max-e because Energy is SO important to us. Once our deck's combined Energy runs out: we lose. We could have 0 in all Disciplines and still be kicking. 5 Energy can be the deciding factor in losing a creature or keeping it(it has for me several times), and 10 Energy can definitely be a factor. Losing that creature may even effect the game! Range on Energy then feels weird to us, and honestly it was questionable that they implemented it. Especially in Dawn of Perim when attacks did not hit as hard, and therefore 5-10 Energy was even more important.

In Energy range's defense, it does add value to cards. Not that having a max c/w Tartarek Psi won't be valuable, but having a max energy card at your disposal makes that card worth THAT much more.

In opposition to Energy range, statistically only every 3rd of a card will have max Energy. This makes the majority of creature cards a disappointment, almost to a point where they are negligible. There's hope though! In real world matches, you can ask for max Energy on your creatures: this is the good thing about real matches! When the dromes come back, you won't have the same convenience, but maybe you're ok with that.


So: are you ok with Energy range? Share your stories that convince of one way or another.

I agree with this, I dislike what having variable energy did to trading value. I mean cards with certain max disciplines sometimes meant something, but the majority of cards people were content with the any discipline set. But max energy was a must on like any trade. Any card that wasn't maxed were useless...

I know they had the range of energy because yea, stuff in the show was variable. But I doubt too many people would have made a big deal if energy wasn't variable?

Especially in Dawn of Perim when attacks did not hit as hard, and therefore 5-10 Energy was even more important.
The game seemed to go in a full circle since thanks to Xerium armor 5 damage made a huge difference. Think about 60 vs 65 energy. That was a whole other attack!

Marrillian wrote:stuff in the show was variable.

This is a great point! I didn't think about that. When creatures were scanned in the show, it was whatever stats they were at a time. Use 100 Fortissimos on a Chaor and that could be scanned for one crazy Chaor.

That said, the variability on actual cards does a quite refutable job at mimicking the show's variability.

I liked the range of stats and energy, Specifically cause as you guys know I was a Meek deck user in Masters and Warbeast user in Apprentice. Some cards courage in warbeasts were averaged at like 95 and some meek creatures max energy was 35 or 40. The variable fit very well with varied play. I couldn't use the portcullis to get that extra five damage for certain warbeasts if it was all average and I couldn't get to use meek on many creatures. The variations is what made chaotic cards so unique. Many would trade a headmaster with lowest e plus 4 decent to great ultras just for a chance at a max e headmaster and some would trade a max e headmaster that they just got with a few ultra to get a max e and s headmaster. It was crazy how much they made a difference in trading but highly noticeable in battle as Blzv pointed out and that's what it was all about trading to get the best cards and using them to show off and stomp your opponent. The variation no doubt sold a ton more cards to..

I agree with you to some degree Agame, but Im specifically talking about Energy. Range on disciplines is a pretty awesome feeling, a range that would feel even more special if the spotlight wasn't on energy variation. Heck, when Chaotic comes back I wouldn't even mind seeing the range on disciplines more than 20!

it's good at where it's at I wouldn't change energy either..

I think Energy, with the community as large as it was, was perfect. Sure, most people wanted Max E on their Creatures, but only if they were using them in a deck. There was a 1/3 chance of getting a Max E card, which means it would not have been difficult to find and trade an upgrade. I liked the variety it added with the possibility for a Meek Creature potentially getting up to 3 guaranteed attacks with a Xerium. It added to the trading market in a way that Stats couldn't. You could always know that your Max E was worth something, but having Max P on something that doesn't use power was kinda worthless. It could always fill a niche, but it never hurt having more Energy (Aside from Meek)

Well that's why I said it was bad, having max E changed a card from being worth its relative (rarity/card type) value to being something ridiculous worth 5+ other "equivalent" cards...

But I think you also have to factor in that the people seeking Max E were often seeking the "Good" cards that everyone wanted. Headmaster as used above. People wanted him for everything Mipedian and I think he was just an inflated card in general. Seeking Max E meant you had to pay much more. We didn't see much search for smaller name cards so the Max E, though it made them more valuable, didn't really impact the market as much.

Terabyte wrote:most people wanted Max E on their Creatures, but only if they were using them in a deck.

Where else do you use creatures? You see, deck building REQUIRED max energy, which renders 2/3 cards completely useless(asides from meek).

You can't tell me you rather have a non-max-e card over a max-e card, even when it comes to collection. It's just insensible.

When it comes to just collection, I don't care what card...  But most people don't actually try for complete collections  so this argument is very limited.

Perhaps it's just me then: because after having 4 Blazvatan's I'm still searching for a non-Premium with Max E.

Well that's a different case, that has to do with favorite card specialty. Like Maxxor originally was for me until I made a deck with him.

Oh. I didn't mean collection. What I was talking about was more the fact that the only cards people cared about were limited because of their use in Decks. Popular cards are what were sought most so they were very "inflated" because everyone wanted to use them rather than experiment with the lower tiered cards. That's what I enjoyed about Chaotic. It's versatility allowed for smaller decks to still take on the Ultra only decks. There weren't as many staples. Like in Yugioh, 10 of your cards will be identical to everyone else just because they're that good. People saw Headmaster or Maxxor PoP and they flocked to get one, but Dagger decks or other niche decks were overlooked by the masses which is more of why we saw hyper inflation on a Max E Ultra rather than them just going for a sensible amount.

For any deck, even a one made of commons, I still need max E on creatures.

But it's a lot easier to get a Max E Common as they were Common. The inflation was only really hard on high tier cards which I think made them valuable.

Ok so what about this:

Range the energy on creatures by 1, so for example, Ursis would have 81, 82, 83, 84 & 85 energy. This way, we have 5 different variations, and attack damage would not matter, because attack damage is in intervals of 5.

This'll make everyone happy.

No it doesn't..I don't wanna see an 83 energy Ursis. Tera is right cards like Mehin,Bladez,and Stelgar VM plus even cards like Lystone or original Lore (meek) could take on Ultra decks but I disagree about the same 10 cards in every deck thing being different with chaotic. Most people found a way to put in a xerium armor,marksmens preperation and primal smash if they could get them. Dagger decks mostly got popular because of things like Azaia or numin or attacks like dry touch and extinguishing fountain and quite a few abilities and mugic. Elements just weren't as reliable as they used to be. Garv became widely used since things like gear grind cause Battle gear not to be reliable. Base Damage was the best way to play it safe because even stats weren't safe. It just made sense along with a lot of damage and a way to take down gear (gear grind again) Stats (psychodrain etc) take away elements with azaia etc ,energy gain with aich king location control with Flash Kick and possible grounding grapple or terraport if you had earth (ursis)
. Healing with Najarin,ff plus Heptagon hail, was a beast with meek need a lot of denial though.. and i'm rambaling ..like you guys don't already know this. Primal+Dagger ftw

Terabyte wrote:But it's a lot easier to get a Max E Common as they were Common. The inflation was only really hard on high tier cards which I think made them valuable.

Doesn't justify ultras (without max stats) needing to be traded for some max stats on a rare...

King A-Game Darini wrote:No it doesn't..I don't wanna see an 83 energy Ursis.

It was sarcasm in order so that people would see there is just about nothing we can do to compromise between energy variation and energy stagnation.

King A-Game Darini wrote:Tera is right cards like Mehin,Bladez,and Stelgar VM plus even cards like Lystone or original Lore (meek) could take on Ultra decks but I disagree about the same 10 cards in every deck thing being different with chaotic. Most people found a way to put in a xerium armor,marksmens preperation and primal smash if they could get them.

I believe these points contradict one another, because on one hand you're stressing the power of under-used cards, and then saying that decks are homogeneous.

King A-Game Darini wrote:Dagger decks mostly got popular because of things like Azaia or numin or attacks like dry touch and extinguishing fountain and quite a few abilities and mugic. Elements just weren't as reliable as they used to be.

I don't think I've seen a single Dry Touch ever.. in deck builds, in games... never. Dagger decks are popular because gear destro/flip decks are less popular than disc/element shut-downs.

Again, I'd like to stress the point that 2/3 of creature cards are worthless because 1 energy value is sought after. People desperately want an 85 Ursis over an 80 Ursis, people desperately want a 30 Enre-hep HMotD over a 35 or 25 Enre-hep HMotD.

Variation is a cool feeling.. one that can be reserved to disciplines so that 2/3 of creature cards aren't left behind.

The real problem with energy variation is that only the extremely lucky or really rich benefit from it...

The only case where I would put a non-max energy card is in a stat based deck where I only have a card with max disciplines and not a version with max energy...


And if the only reason you guys have for wanting energy variation is to stay true to the show, Fortessimo - all I got to say.

^Truff

To take it even further, if energy variation was like the show's.. then energy on a creature could range from 5 to infinite.. because one creature could either be almost dead, or have had a million fortissimos casted onto it.

I do think some people put way too much stock in getting max energy cards, though I will agree and admit that I had matches where 5 energy was the deciding factor in life or death for a creature. However, it wasn't everything. I've opted out of using max energy cards before for better statted ones a few times.

very true.. however if there wasn't a variation in Energy then everyone would just be trading for max stats..

King A-Game Darini wrote:however if there wasn't a variation in Energy then everyone would just be trading for max stats..

Not exactly. As I said in my introductory post, disciplines are 1 of three choices in attack damage. Deck's based on element attacks or dagger attacks aren't based around disciplines. Higher disciplines can help against discipline attack decks.. but usually disc attack decks are pretty good at securing their attacks.

Also if you are building a disc attack deck, you may need more than one discipline to do so. Sometimes even all four.

Based on the above points, building disciplines as offensive and defensive, technically you want all disciplines at max. The statistics between getting a card with all max disciplines and max energy is significant. Getting a card with max disciplines is truly worth trading for! Not just for the game, but for the collection.

In the case of searching for one max discipline in order to have edge in a disc attack deck, it has a lot less weight than energy. 5 difference in 100 courage and 95 courage is a smaller % than 5 difference in 65 and 60 energy, AND cards build disciplines much more than energy; there's battlegear and attacks that boost a discipline by 100, and you can only get 20 energy from battlegear.

Sure there would be people looking for max in certain disciplines on certain cards, but it won't have the weight that energy does.