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    Questioning Loyalties

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    Post by Getsugaru on Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:40 pm

    I have a question about Loyal Creatures. Specifically whether or not Tribeless Creatures can be used with them. Let's say I am building a team for a 6v6. I've added Iflar, the Crown Prince to my team. Iflar has the Loyal ability, which, as I understand it, was just their way of shortening "This Creature cannot enter mixed teams." Now, let's pretend I have a strong copy of Ursis that I want to use. Ursis is tribeless, and therefore does not belong to another tribe and can consequently only use generic mugic. Would I be able to add Ursis to my team, or would Iflar's loyalties prevent Ursis from joining?
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    Post by KingMaxxor4 on Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:48 am

    Lunatea wrote:I have a question about Loyal Creatures. Specifically whether or not Tribeless Creatures can be used with them. Let's say I am building a team for a 6v6. I've added Iflar, the Crown Prince to my team. Iflar has the Loyal ability, which, as I understand it, was just their way of shortening "This Creature cannot enter mixed teams." Now, let's pretend I have a strong copy of Ursis that I want to use. Ursis is tribeless, and therefore does not belong to another tribe and can consequently only use generic mugic. Would I be able to add Ursis to my team, or would Iflar's loyalties prevent Ursis from joining?
    Tribeless creatures can be counted as their "own tribe". Basically tribeless creatures are not affiliated with other tribes or each other for that matter. So the conclusion is no, you can't mix tribeless creatures with loyal creatures. (I too had really wished this was the other case.)
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    Post by Getsugaru on Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:20 pm

    What about if I gave Ursis that one flag? The battlegear that allows a unit to count as part of another tribe? Would that work, or would deck construction rules prevent that before I started?

    Ursis is basically the ultimate battle mage, with high stats and three mugic counters, but no abilities to support this and a limit to generic mugic. Presuming the answer to my above question is "no," then it really is unfortunate that he cannot ally himself with creatures like Iflar or Enre-Hep's High Muge form (and that the Droskin is nowhere near as useful as it was in the show; I saw a cool version made by a fan that just blocked all attacks below 25 damage until one such attack came along, at which point it was destroyed. While that may still be too powerful, it still was more useful than the version they actually made in my opinion. But that's for another thread.).
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    Post by Chiodosin1 on Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:49 pm

    For loyal cards they must be in an army of only cards that share a tribe with them when the deck is built augmenting the tribes of creatures though effects during the game had no effect on loyal


    Mod edited to add emphasis
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    Post by lazerbem on Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:00 pm

    The only exceptions to the Loyalty rule are with M'arrillians and Minions


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    Post by KingMaxxor4 on Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:58 pm

    Its not an exception; the cards say "Loyal - M'arrillian or minions"


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    Post by lazerbem on Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:24 pm

    I know that, but Vix'ben doesn't say minions in one of his releases and still he allows minions.


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    Post by KingMaxxor4 on Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:01 pm

    That might just be a misprint. Or it could have been a bug in the battle drome. I don't' know about that case.


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    Post by Oracle Afjak on Tue Aug 18, 2015 4:05 am

    The above statement of tribeless creatures counting as their own tribe is somewhat close, but incorrect.

    The reason tribeless creatures cannot be included in a deck with Loyal tribesman is because of what Loyal means: all creatures in a Loyal deck must share at least one tribe with all Loyal creatures/cards. Tribeless creatures, by definition of the word, have no tribe, and therefore are completely incapable of meeting that criteria to be allowed into the same deck.


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    Post by Getsugaru on Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:10 pm

    That's unfortunate. I find it silly that I cannot use the combo I listed originally. To me, that rule should be the other way around; instead of stating only members of the same tribe, it should just prevent members of another tribe. After all, what if a Tribeless in Chaotic were to find theirself comfortable with the ways of another tribe and decide to join? Instead of encouraging such possibilities, Loyalty just makes such concepts impossible to try out. Then again, a lot of what I just said takes the form of story, not gameplay. Still think the ruling is silly, especially since the one battlegear that could change a creature's tribe does not get around the ruling. : /
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    Post by cromax123456 on Tue Aug 18, 2015 7:08 pm

    If a creature likes another tribe and join it, another card will be printed for it, Phelphor may be the only example of this though. Obviously there are creatures that join another tribe involuntarily *cough* Danian parasites *cough* but otherwise it seems that we will just have to live with the fact that no other creatures will join another tribe from the tribe or lack thereof they started as.
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    Post by CSpacian on Tue Aug 18, 2015 8:30 pm

    To be fair, all Tribeless Creatures right now are also Past Creatures, so its more than likely that they did eventually defect off into one Tribe or another.

    I do agree its a bit silly that Tribeless Creatures can't enter mixed tribes, since it essentially just creates a 6th kind of worthless tribe. I'm probably more upset at the fact that they don't count for things like Accelerated Unity though as they don't have a 'Tribe' to count for.

    My guess is that they did it so they can't be used with any Loyal Creature for some kind of balancing issue.
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    Post by Blitser on Wed Aug 19, 2015 12:34 am

    Ahh, I felt so disapointed going through this topic, explanation in mind, only to see Afjak beat me to it as always. haha

    As for the ruling itself, if a restriction is placed on a card that doesn't seem to make sense, it's important to consider that future sets may have made things a bit more clear. The tribeless only ever got four creatures, so while you might not be able to find a broken combo this ruling is preventing right now, there would most likely have been one coming up.


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