Elemental and Discipline attacks

Hello,

After a long time into Chaotic and recently read the Comprehensive Rules and have a few games. I'm having more and more questions about a simple aspect of the game.

The attacks.

I've go some questions about them after reading the Comprehensive Rules, the Official Rulebook, the cards a few times and playing other players :

Elemental and Discipline attacks always counts as Discipline and Elemental attacks ? Even if the creature does not share the element or does not met the Discipline request ?
I mean, I have Vidav without element playing a Earth attack at The Gloomuck Swamps. This location makes Earth atks deal an aditionnal 5 attack damage. Since the atk counts as a ELemental Earth attack ... will he still deal an aditionnal 5 attack damage ? Even if he does not have earth ?
Same with fire, I do not have fire, will it deal -5 damage ?
The Rules states that the Earth damage on the atk can only be deal if the creature share the elemental type ... but does the attack counts as a fire attack even if the creature does not have fire ?

That's pretty my questionning. I would say that it only affect the attack if the creature shares the Element, but I cannot find the rules to support my words. I only find that the attack his of the elmeental type if it has an element.

Same goes for Outperform ... you fail the stat check but it is still a Discipline attack ...

I would normally say no ... but I'm struggling to find Rules Supporting my sayings.


Can you help me ?

The Comprehensive Rules states that an elemental attack is an attack with an element on it. I found nowhere that the creature had to

Gloomuck,and by extension storm tunnel,lava pond and everain =/= element X. If a creature plays flamebloom at lavapond or everain it will do the 5 extra even if that creature doesnt have the element because thats what the locations says it does. Think of it as being an extra 5 base damage on the attack instead of on the creature like element X does.

A good example is Invaders tactic and A fluidmorpher. The attack is considered, water and by extension elemental. The attack did damage and is water therefore water damage. I found it confusing at first too. However the morpher would not gain the mc if the creature playing it doesnt have water even though itd be the same amount of damage. But if it was played at everain and you dont have water. Its gonna do (15 or 20 depends whose location)

I hope that helps. Its best to think of those locations and element X as totally different effects that just appear similar. Like healing and gaining.

Flying advantage at lava pond will still do 0. No matter what elements you have.

That's what I thought.
So it's the same with Battlegears like VlaicShard and Element x ?
You give Vlaric Shard to Vidav and he would do 5 extra damage ?

Same for the Outperform Discipline ?
Like Aivenna failing a stat check courage .... she will still deal an aditionnal 5 damage ?

perhaps these definitions will help (from the CR glossary)

Elemental Attack: Any Attack Card with an Elemental Type is considered an elemental attack of the associated type (or types). See Elemental Type.

Elemental Damage: The elemental damage dealt by an attack is based on the elemental type of an attack and the elemental types of the creature. An attack is considered to do a particular damage type if both it and the creature playing it have that elemental type.

You'll note that for elemental damage you need to have the element but for an elemental attack you don't. so what does element X care about?

Element X: This Innate Ability indicates that the Creature w deals an additional X damage when it deals attack damage of the indicated elemental type. Multiple instances of this ability on a card are cumulative.

as you can see it cares about element damage meaning you do need the element type.
the rule is if it cares about an elemental attack you don't need the element but if it cares about the elemental damage you do.

so an earthless creature won't get any use out of a valric shard but they CAN get use out of gloomuck swamp. Makes sense?

stats are basically similar just with different wording

Discipline Attack: An Attack Card which contains a Stat Check (Discipline) “X”, Challenge (Discipline) “X”, or Stat Fail (Discipline) “X” is considered a “Discipline Attack”. A Discipline Attack is successful if you won any Stat Check, Challenge, or Stat Fail of that Discipline on that Attack Card. A Discipline Attack is unsuccessful if you lost all Checks, Challenges, and Fails on the Attack Card.

the attack still counts a discipline attack even if you fail but its not a successful one unless you pass at least 1 thing of that discipline.

Outpreform Discipline X This Innate Ability indicates that the Creature with this ability deals an additional X damage with successful Discipline Attacks of the indicated Discipline. Winning multiple Challenges, Stat Checks, or Stat Fails on the same Attack Card does not increase the additional damage. Multiple instances of this ability on a card are cumulative.

so as you see you it needs to be a successful discipline attack for outperform but not for things that care about it just being a discipline attack (like bodal's dagger)

Hopefully that's all clear enough

Dam thanks, I missed the Elemental damage definition, it makes so much diferences.
Everything is clear now.
Thanks
Thoes were helpfull tips you both gave me.

Thanks a lot.