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    Gan'Trak

    CSpacian
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    Chaotic Username : CSpacian
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    Gan'Trak Empty Gan'Trak

    Post by CSpacian Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:39 am



    General description:
    With every stat only at 50, including Energy, and no Elements or Mugicians Gan'Trak seems fairly useless, but Gan'Trak's ability is one of the most unique and odd Abilities that you will ever see in Chaotic. Gan'Trak's ability is that all attacks you play reduce your opponent's stats rather than dealing damage. As a result when their stats hit 0 they are destroyed.
    As a fan of wacky and weird cards Gan'Trak holds a special place in my heart as probably one of the weirdest cards. He completely changes the game to a degree that no other card in Chaotic can quite match. Flipping the battle around on its head Gan'Trak will turn the battle into something completely unique.
    Capable of ruining nearly all of your opponent's Discipline-based attacks, forcing them to rely on Elemental based damage. But weak to range and burn damage Gan'Trak doesn't have the best odds of surviving for a long time.

    Strategies and game play: 
    Gan'Trak's ability is basically divided into three different boosts:
    1) Gan'Trak's main strength and what most people notice when they see it is in lowering the enemies' stats allowing you to easily pass Stat Fails or Challenges as well as making your opponent fail their stat challenges and checks. Maximizing your damage output and minimizing theirs.
    2) An alternative deck play style that is hard to simultaneously prepare for while preparing for opposing decks. Gan'Trak renders healing cards moot, stat challenges close to useless, and many other cards like Xerium Armor useless as well as several other health-boosting cards.
    3) Bypassing side effects. Many cards are becoming balanced by controlling the damage the creature takes or deals. Bodal's Elemental Converter and Ulmar's Bionic Steam Arm are both examples of this. However, in Gan'Trak decks no damage takes place so you bypass a lot of side-effects that would ordinarily hinder your Creatures.

    Combos with other cards: 
    Degenervate: A 0 BP attack from Dawn of Perim which lowers all stats of the attacked Creature by 25 at the cost of your Creature's Water. Which in a Gan'Trak basically means a 25 damage attack.
    Bladez: While Brainwashed all of Bladez's attacks always cause + 10 drop to all stats. Meaning that Opponent's will fall quickly.
    Issaley: A powerful Minion that makes any enemy with Elemental Type Water gain Exhaust All Disciplines 10: Practically an additional 10 damage against enemies with Water. If you can ensure the opposing Creature's have Water either with Mugic or Abilities he definitely deserves a place.
    Ulmar's Bionic Steam Arm: Increases all damage dealt by 5. The only downside is if you deal over 20 damage it is destroyed and your creature takes a lot of damage, but Gan'Trak decks deal 0 damage because they are dropping stats. (Bodal's Elemental Converter also falls into this category).
    Etude of Exhaustion: Exhaust 5 in all Disciplines enough said. (Fatiguing Falsetto)
    Song of Desperation: Once more attacks played by Gan'Trak deal 0 damage anyways, so Song of Desperation is practically a free +30 Energy.

    Cards That DO NOT Combo: (Replacements)
    Sinister Statuette: One of the best side benefits of Gan'Trak decks are that they deal 0 damage with attacks. Sinister Statuette requires you to deal 15 damage to gain its benefits. So you actually won't be dealing damage with your attacks so those 15 points will be infinitely out of your reach. (Ulmar's Bionic Steam Arm)
    Ballad of the Belittled: Another card that most people commonly run alongside Gan'Trak. Gan'trak is probably the best bet at reducing a Creature's stats this low, but Gan'Trak usually doesn't reduce a Creature's Energy meaning you'll have to use alternative abilities and Mugic to reduce the Creature's Energy to 0. And if your opposing Creature's stats are already 25 or lower there are better Mugic to reduce the remaining stats the rest of the way (ie. Intimidating Melody of M'arr). Though I have seen Dregora and Ballad of the Belittled used together in Gan'Trak decks to certain benefit.
    Fluidmorphers: Once again no damage is being dealt by any of your attacks. Meaning all Water Attacks are dealing 0 damage and you will not gain a single Mugician from these guys. (Mock'Adyn Fluid Master).

    Ways to counteract it: 
    -Swift/Range: The ability to engage directly with Gan'Trak usually spells Death for these decks. There is very rarely anything Gan'Trak can do to protect itself in combat as it has mediocre stats and no Elements. Which is why a Creature with Defender (Kha'Rall Magma Shard, Bronzeflight, Rarran Tainted) are very important for this deck. Ghar'lag is a valid alternative as well as he can discard a Mugic card to get rid of Swift and Range.
    -Burn Damage: Gan'Trak's average energy is 50, meaning a good burn deck and kill Gan'Trak quickly and leave your deck incapable of doing much else. Meaning you either need to heal or your Gan'Trak needs to be immune to Mugic damage (Epitrinne).
    -Duality Dirge: A Three Mugic costing card that completely resets all damage Gan'Trak and his team had inflicted.

    Strengths/Pros: 
    -Healing: Many decks carry Healing now and Healing is rendered useless against Gan'Trak.
    -Stats: Renders plenty of Stat Checks and Challenges useless for your opponent, but greatly buffs your Challenges and Stat Fails. And since Challenges and Fails tend to be two of the highest damage abilities its usually very worth it.
    -Bypassing Side Effects: Mentioned several times already Gan'Trak avoids a lot of negative side effects cards have due to avoiding dealing damage.

    Weaknesses/Cons: 
    -High Disciplines: Most Creatures have a higher highest Discipline than Energy. Blazvatan for instance has over 150 Speed yet only ~70 Energy. Meaning you are going to have to shell out an additional 80 damage in some cases to bring a beast down. There is some small things like Bladez's ability that offsets it though.
    -Huge Stat gains: Gaining Energy or healing usually only happens in small increments usually only around 20 at a time. But stat gains can be quite massive. Outfreeze-like cards become a practical +100 Energy card.
    -Recklessness: Recklessness is a great hindrance to Warbeasts and quite a few other Creatures. And sadly Gan'Trak cannot take advantage of such a thing. Meaning even taking out all Conjurors on an opponent's team won't help you take down massive Warbeasts.
    -Elemental based damage: While Gan'Trak can seal away most stat based attacks Elemental based attacks still carry through quite well.
    -Unique: I've already mentioned how if Gan'Trak dies everything sucks for his team. Gan'Trak needs to be built around to be really effective. And the fact that he can't be doubled up on means that you only have one chance.
    -Loyal: Gan'Trak's need to be built around is severally limited by the fact that he is Loyal means the Creatures he can be used alongside.

    Overall rating: 
    7/10. Honestly I feel like Gan'Trak is just way too frail and with Zamool decks being some of the most powerful decks nowadays avoiding that Burn Damage becomes way too difficult, necessitating cards like Weightless Energy Vessels of Epritinne).  And once Gan'Trak goes down you got to put up with a lot of pesky side-effects. And even decks that don't have burn will probably have a Creature with Swift and Range specifically to take down cards like Gan'Trak (necessitating Defender). I feel like Gan'Trak often times is just too frail to protect completely.

    Improvements: (How to make Gan'Trak rise up to 10/10)
    Honestly the probably biggest complaint about Gan'Trak is that you sacrifice a lot and it can all come down fairly quickly. Gan'Trak needs to have his effect in play even while in the Discard Pile. Whether it is through a Location giving Gan'Trak a second breath or just through a clause on his own card. Or maybe being able to run Gan'Trak + another Creature like him either a Kharall with his own ability doing it or a second Gan'Trak.


    Last edited by CSpacian on Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:57 am; edited 2 times in total
    Oraklon Afjak
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    Gan'Trak Empty Re: Gan'Trak

    Post by Oraklon Afjak Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:16 pm

    For the record, Trills of Diminution will not work the way you've described it: Trills can only target engaged creatures, and if you've engaged Gan'trak you'd best be giving your all to destroy it.

    The Kha'rall Husk Armor statement is incorrect. Abilities like "Element X", the challenge Chieftains, and Melody of Mirage will all alter undamage dealt by a Gan'trak army because they all replace. Gan'trak only reforms damage that would be dealt, so if the Husk would force you to deal 0 damage normally, you will lower the opposing engaged creature's disciplines by 0.

    Also, if you're playing Gan'trak and do not use ways to protect him from targeting or ranged jumps, then you will lose by your own fault. Give him a Weightless Energy Vessel or AZAIA Mindprobe to shroud from burn decks that didn't plan enough to pack gear destruction, have at least one sharded Kha'rall or Bronzeflight wielder to defend from jumpers, and you will be adequately protected from most decks even if they have Zamool (who honestly isn't too scary if you plan your deck right, unlike Gintanai).

    Btw, how do you plan to cast Aegis Airia? It doesn't matter if you have Heptadd's Crown sitting on the Northrange after casting Chorus of Cothica while the Golden Heptagon is active: if you control a chieftain, your minions can only cast Generic Mugic. When two abilities contradict, the negative will supersede. And even if you did use Mock'adyn FM to cast, it still alters the damage you would be dealing, so you drop their disciplines by 0.
    CSpacian
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    Gan'Trak Empty Re: Gan'Trak

    Post by CSpacian Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:46 pm

    Ah, misread Trills. Its been too long since I played.

    That's not how I remember it working. I remembered Gan'Trak's ability taking place before Kha'Rall Husk Armor. Kha'Rall Husk Armor taking place last meaning the reduced damage would occur after Gan'Trak reduced the damage to 0 himself. I remembered it going Gan'Trak converting the damage to Discipline drops then Kha'Rall Husk Armor reducing it to 0, but it would already be at 0.

    Did I not say something like that? He's still weak to it in the ways you've got to prepare for it and if you don't you are screwed. People need to actively include something to counter them. True people should be coming prepared for it anyways, but I do know not everybody is. Like I said you should bring Defenders to protect from Range (or something similar) or Epritinne/Weightless Energy Vessel. Although I really should've mentioned Weightless Energy Vessel in name, I know I thought of it. Surprised I didn't say it.

    Like I said with the Kha'Rall Husk Armor that's not how I remembered it going down. I remembered the conversion taking place and then the reduction of damage. So it wouldn't do anything. If I mis-remembered I'll correct it. I just want to make sure.
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    Gan'Trak Empty Re: Gan'Trak

    Post by Oraklon Afjak Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:38 pm

    Honestly, using defenders and protection from targeting is generally common sense if you have any kind of support creature worth a spit in the deck. That goes not just for Gan'trak but stars like Hune Paltanin and Najarin FF. And Gan'trak's 45-55 energy is actually pretty resilient to burn for any creature classed as support. Compare to Nivenna's or Siril'ean's energy ranges.

    As for Gan'trak:

    Gan'trak wrote:Attacks played by your Creatures reduce the opposing engaged Creature's Disciplines by an amount equal to the damage they would deal instead of dealing damage.
    If your engaged creature has water 10 and you would normally deal an additional 10 water damage with an attack, Gan'trak lowers the opposing engaged creature's disciplines by an additional 10 instead. If you play a speed attack and The Pits would normally reduce the damage of that attack by 5, Gan'trak lowers the opposing engaged creature's disciplines by 5 less instead. And if Melody of Mirage or Kha'rall Husk Armor would normally make the attack you play deal 0 damage... you get the point. There is no order of when the "conversion takes place": you apply replacement effects and modifiers, then calculate damage as you would normally. The only real difference is lowering disciplines instead of energy.

    Things that react to damage being dealt, e.g Levitaar or Riverlands or Bionic Steam Arms' second line, have no effect because hard damage is not being dealt. But any and all effects that would alter the amount of damage an attack would deal normally would, by nature of its own rules text, alter the undamage of an attack played by a Gan'trak crony. That's the very reason why the Bionic Steam Arms trick works without any drawback: altering damage, but without reaction.
    CSpacian
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    Gan'Trak Empty Re: Gan'Trak

    Post by CSpacian Sun Jul 12, 2015 8:56 am

    OKay, changes have been made. I was misinformed and I apologize. Guess going so long without conducting many battles with him was a bad idea. I hope my next Card Review (if I do one) will be better.
    KingMaxxor4
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    Post by KingMaxxor4 Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:37 pm

    Firstly, I will say this is an amazing in depth card review. Amazing job.

    CSpacian wrote:3) Bypassing side effects. Many cards are becoming balanced by controlling the damage the creature takes or deals. Bodal's Elemental Converter and Ulmar's Bionic Steam Arm are both examples of this. However, in Gan'Trak decks no damage takes place so you bypass a lot of side-effects that would ordinarily hinder your Creatures.
    The problem with comboing with Bionic Steam Arm (at least from my understanding) is that the additional damage from the battle gear will be actual damage and is not filtered through Gan'trak ability. So when an attacks is played, steam arm does damage while the attack itself does 0 and lowers stats. Again, I may be wrong about this. I didn't see anything about it in the errata, so I'm wondering about other's opinions.
    Chiodosin1
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    Gan'Trak Empty Re: Gan'Trak

    Post by Chiodosin1 Sun Jul 19, 2015 9:32 pm

    Marrillian wrote:Firstly, I will say this is an amazing in depth card review. Amazing job.

    CSpacian wrote:3) Bypassing side effects. Many cards are becoming balanced by controlling the damage the creature takes or deals. Bodal's Elemental Converter and Ulmar's Bionic Steam Arm are both examples of this. However, in Gan'Trak decks no damage takes place so you bypass a lot of side-effects that would ordinarily hinder your Creatures.
    The problem with comboing with Bionic Steam Arm (at least from my understanding) is that the additional damage from the battle gear will be actual damage and is not filtered through Gan'trak ability. So when an attacks is played, steam arm does damage while the attack itself does 0 and lowers stats. Again, I may be wrong about this. I didn't see anything about it in the errata, so I'm wondering about other's opinions.


    Well the card says you deal an additional 5 attack damage so I'm pretty sure it gets lumped in with the attack and therefore comes under gantrak's effect simaler to other effects that boost attack damage like water 5 or something
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    Gan'Trak Empty Re: Gan'Trak

    Post by KingMaxxor4 Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:20 pm

    I may just be remembering how it worked in the dromes (but of course those were quite buggy and not necessarily accurate to rulings haha).
    CSpacian
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    Post by CSpacian Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:27 pm

    Yeah, the dromes were usually a bit glitchy. And when Gan'Trak's ability actually went off was never specified, if it had been then we could actually figure it out.

    I thought it went:
    Attack information is examined first (all checks, Elementals, things like that) > Any attacks that added a set amount of damage (like +5 or +20 goes there Element X and Invisibility Strike X) > Then abilities that would reduce set damage > Finally attacks that would set it to something (like Entropy Modulator, Xerium Armor, or Gan'Trak's ability) would activate

    But I also thought Gan'Trak's ability went before Aegis Aria or Kha'Rall Husk Armor's.
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    Post by KingMaxxor4 Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:46 pm

    It would make sense that opponent's attack damage reducers are applied after your attack modifiers. Therefore the damage has already been changed to 0.

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