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    For the Future Health of Chaotic


    Chaotic Username : KingMaxor4
    Chaotic Coins : 2687

    For the Future Health of Chaotic Empty For the Future Health of Chaotic

    Post by KingMaxxor4 Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:21 am

    This is an open letter to Gannon and the game development/balancing team concerning the health of the game going forward with the return of Chaotic. Below members will voice their opinions on what would make for a good changes to the current state.

    Categories to Consider:

    • Old Cards

    • Old Codes

    • Banlist

    • Game Formats

    • Variable Energy

    • Variable Disciplines

    • Codes

    • Reprints / Accessibility

    • Rules

    These are just some prompts, feel free to contribute with whatever topics are important to you

    Last edited by KingMaxxor4 on Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:31 am; edited 9 times in total

    Chaotic Username : Corchaneo
    Chaotic Coins : 2
    Location : MA/VT

    For the Future Health of Chaotic Empty Re: For the Future Health of Chaotic

    Post by conchors Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:55 am

    My opinions on each are as follows:

    Old Cards:
    Many old cards are, in a word, unbalanced. This leaves the game in an unhealthy state if they are allowed. As a whole the old sets are fun however. My personal opinion would be it would be best to reprint if possible, and allow them but with a banlist in physical formats (see below for more on that). If that's not possible, then they should not be allowed at all. Because the current state of the secondary market is that many old cards are impossible to obtain. This discourages new players from joining the game, since they would have simply no access to many strategies and cards.

    Old Codes:
    As much as it will upset many current members of the community I believe the allowance of old codes would be a disaster for them, and for new players. The secondary market and the internet are FULL of images of cards with codes exposed, AND I'm certain some people have the codes of cards they sold archived somewhere in case this very event happens. This will lead to both an online game that is full of people with more cards than a newcomer can get, discouraging their play, and to people with disputes over who has rights to the codes, as well as codes simply being webscraped from sites with images. Thus, despite my own collection becoming non-usable in a new online, I STRONGLY recommend not allowing old codes for both sanity, and for the health of a new community attracting new players.

    Game Formats:
    Many TCGs only allow cards from the newest sets, both for commercial and balance reasons. MTG has formats that specifically allow the older sets in varying levels. If you DO want people to get use of the old cards, without reprinting or alienating too many new players, this could be a good compromise. Even then, if in the future, new sets make the game unbalanced when used with older ones, it may still be something to keep in mind. The larger a library of cards gets, the harder it becomes to foresee how players will inevitably break things.

    In the case of allowing old cards, a banlist would be a necessity. Things like Zamool and Aerdak First Turn Kill decks exist. And this reduces the fun of the game for everyone. You play an FTK deck or an anti-FTK deck, or you lose. No variety in deckbuilding and it leads to a very unhealthy game. If old cards are not allowed, a banlist still should be considered. This is a very nonstandard game, which makes it harder to predict all interactions. There is a possibility that in this case it would not be needed, if no Unbalanced cards or infinite combos are created, but, building it in as an option the designers have if things DO go wrong might be a good thing to consider (especially in any kind of online client, even if the banlist is empty, having it is an important fallback).

    Variable Energy:
    I understand the idea and I like it, truly. However, especially on Rares and higher, it can be crippling to pull a creature with minimum energy because in many cases, it simply handicaps your entire deck. You get a Rare, and your friend gets the same Rare, but yours has min energy and theirs has max, you end up with a simply worse card than your friend. Even when you consider the addition of disciplines (more on those below), energy is so much more important in almost every scenario. Unless tournaments standardize all cards to their average stats, going into a tournament with a less than max Energy on any of your creatures would likely cost you.

    Variable Disciplines:
    This is a potentially great idea. However it needs to be handled with less than true random. The possibility that every stat is below average at once is not fun for players. If a card was guaranteed at least one max stat, or even that only so many could be below average. Or even just a less complex weighting algorithm than true random +-0-10 would likely improve game help. Because then you can get variations in strategy and decks based on those stats. It should be carefully considered by a design team and made better if it is to be used in the future. Nobody wants to pull an Ultra with its best stat at -10 from average, and -20 from max. That just hurts. Since getting another one of those becomes difficult. Maybe the variations could be tiered by rarity as well. You can gets lots of a common and choose the best one. But supers and ultras are much harder to get, and getting a bad one is super painful.

    Chaotic Username : KingMaxor4
    Chaotic Coins : 2687

    For the Future Health of Chaotic Empty Re: For the Future Health of Chaotic

    Post by KingMaxxor4 Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:00 pm

    Old Cards
    I'll start off with my opinions on the listed categories. As a long term collector and player of the game, I would be disappointed if old cards were not usable in some capacity. But having old cards makes a unnecessarily high cost of entry for new players. Magic solved this problem by having different formats. Additionally, many of the good cards in circulation have been snatched up by high profile collectors, leaving scraps for rest of us. This has driven up the price of the most playable cards because the supply has piled in certain persons' homes.

    Old Codes
    While this would make players happy knowing that they can take their old collection online, this will also allow for a lot of abuse. Years of codes not mattering have let uncensored cards proliferate the internet. A person using image recognition and a web scraper will be able to make off with a huge bounty of codes they could sell in underground market. On the topic of codes, the way Chaotic synced cards was really cool and all, but its generally a pain to upload collections. Entering the digits was a tedious process.

    This game needs a banlist. Especially if older cards are playable. As a community leader, we developed a list of cards that broke the game, or caused unfair advantage for their inclusion. These decisions were often hard to come to agreements but were done in the interest of the health of competitive gameplay. They allowed for many more decks to be playable which increased the satisfaction players had with games.

    If old cards are to be included, to aid with the cost of entry for players, I'd suggest having a legacy and standard format.
    The game was designed for 6v6 with masters rules. Opening the game to 10v10 would be fun in a casual setting, if certain cards are banned. Based on card interactions, for each amount of cards, I'd suggest having a different list in each format. 1v1 was really a waste of an option, so if that doesn't come back I wouldn't mind it being replaced with 10v10. 3v3 can stay as a quicker game format, but the reduced with 5 locations and 10 attacks, really neutered gameplay. Attacks cycling so quickly meant seeing that 5 build point on hit wonder even more frequently. Same with oppressive locations.
    Some of the existing cards are excessively strong with 2 copies. I think Chaotic could also benefit by limiting (turning unique) cards like Neekwin or Ursis. Though we were able to improve the metagame through a banlist exclusively, we did experiment with a limited list.

    Variable Stats/Energy
    Variable stats was an innovative market gimmick. Lots of casual players love the idea because it means that duplicates can have varied uses in different decks with different discipline focus. It also means that in mirror matches its still possible to win a challenge against the same creature. But the offender is energy. Having variable energy, means that 2/3s of all cards were automatically bad. There was never a reason to pick a creature with lower energy in deck building. This makes players even more disgruntled when pulling cards. Especially on higher rarities. Just getting a Maxxor was supposed to be an amazing experience, but getting a minimum energy one would ruin the joy. At a competitive level, this means that decks that would already be expensive, require even more money to get max energy on every creature. This creates an even higher barrier of entry for players and is offputting. 

    I'd propose to completely get rid of variable energy and make it so that fully max or min disciplines won't exist. Like in a video game, if each card has a "pool of stat points" that would get randomly distributed for each discipline. In this way, you can have even a higher variance per discipline while preventing highly disparity between cards. If you have a "net of 0" and a variance of +/15 per stat. This will give many different combinations of cards but it means there won't be a absolutely terrible or strictly better version of a card. Cards can have different usage based on the stats. If I have a courage based deck, I'd use the card with higher courage. This decision making is killed when there is a card that is max or near max with all 4 disciplines. The richest "whales" would just hoard those and have significant advantage over others.

    Releasing Sets
    Chaotic's sets were released at too rapid of a pace. While this is great for selling cards and collectors, casual players struggled to amass collections and keep up with the quickly changing game. The meta did not have time to stabilize, so problems with cards weren't noticed until many sets later. If there was more time in between the release of sets, this would have allowed the design team more time to respond to problems with appropriate solutions. An example I'll choose is the M'arrillians as a tribe, they were released and instantly had tools to counter them. The designers assumed their M'arrillians were going to be insanely powerful with their new mechanics, and provided answers that were overkill. The M'arrillians continued to be bad because they were released so quickly with more of the same: low power level and strong counters. Then they were defeated and gone. This all happened within a year. Its like the M'arrillian invasion didn't even happen, or was some side quest in a game.

    Card Accessibility
    There needs to be reprints (not functional reprints) of core cards. Especially attacks. The game already reprinted lower rarity cards for the starter decks which was an excellent decision. But this needs to be done at a much broader range. A lot of the 1 bp attacks make up the majority of deck building decisions. Additionally, some attacks could be reprinted at lower rarity but keep the same name for rule of two purposes.

    I was really happy when Chaotic went from a 5 card rarity system down to a 4 rarity. This put it in line with other games and helped pack balance within the last set. That being said, I believe that a 1/24 chance for ultras is anti-player especially with the variability of disciplines. A 1/9 would be in line with Pokemon's"ultra rare" pull rate. Additionally, when having promo cards, they shouldn't be cards that have outstanding gameplay value, specifically, Ikkatosh Aich King, Droskin, Carniwin. Having staple cards that are very limited in circulation put an even greater burden of entry for players. And if a limited card is sought out by players, it also makes it harder for collectors.

    Other card games allowed for foil and non-foil variants of cards. I believe a good idea for Chaotic would be to have Commons and Rares not be foiled, but randomly would be foils of these in a pack. Supers, Ultras, and Promos can always be foil. Pokemon, Magic, Hearthstone, Yugioh, etc. all do this for their cards. Collectors would love to have full collections of foils, and flex with full foil decks.

    I don't think that Unique should be on cards that are rare and lower. If an ability or card is so good that it needs to be limited, it shouldn't be that easy to get anyway. When opening a box of cards, and you end up with 2-3 unique rares in a box, that really feels bad (and no you can't just "trade them to a friend" because they also have 2-3 of it). On the topic of Unique, I think that every ultra rare card should have been unique. Hearthstone does this with its legendaries. Ultras are hard to come by (especially in Chaotic), and they are inherently power creeped over other rarities. This means that throwing more money at a deck can directly correlate to it being better. Having two Ursis, Tarterek Psi? Those cards are already ridiculous at 1, but with 2 they can sweep up decks.

    Card Balance
    Recklessness is a mechanic that can automatically make a card bad. Combats last at least 3 turns typically, so a Creature with recklessness 5 needs to have 15 more energy than the typical fighter to make it worth it. Most of the time, the card itself was fine if it did not have recklessness.

    Mugic Counters are an important part of the game, too often cards just can't find a place in a deck because of the inability to pay for all the mugic, so a fighter that could have otherwise been a good choice is completely glossed over because it has 0 mc. A card needs to be exceptionally good to make up for the lack of mugic ability.

    Gain/Lose vs Heal/Deal
    Because healing can only be applied to damage already taken, it makes dealing damage significantly better. I cannot respond to damage being dealt with a heal. Take for example: my creature starts with 60 health, if my opponent plays an attack that would deal 40 damage and chains a cannon of casualty to it, I cannot use song of resurgence to survive, I simply will die without an energy gain. Let's say I had priority and will "predict" damage being done and play the heal before hand on the burst. To which end the opponent will just not respond with a dealing ability and wait for the heal to resolve. Since no damage was done, no healing is done, then the attack goes through, I have wasted my heal, and my opponent can now play their cannon to finish me off.

    It is my belief that when it comes to most Mugic and some activated abilities, those should be Gain while innate abilities, triggered abilities, and attack effects can remain as Heal. That way Mugic and abilities that would have healed nothing can be used as responses to other actions that would deal damage / remove energy.

    Last edited by KingMaxxor4 on Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:19 pm; edited 18 times in total
    Ultra Rare

    Chaotic Username : Chiodosin1
    Chaotic Coins : 1086
    Location : Minnesota, US

    For the Future Health of Chaotic Empty Re: For the Future Health of Chaotic

    Post by Chiodosin1 Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:37 pm

    For the reccord, none of these seems like my top priority but I'll weigh in anyway

    old cards/old codes
    Honestly, I wanna combine these, I feel like there are 2 ways you can go with this, you can keep the game compatible and, make a new set that works with all the old cards... eventually reprint the old cards and keep it all part of the same system, if that's the case you just wanna reset all the codes and that'll be that otherwise if your rebuilding the game with slightly varied rules... a different structure, starting over and such which is the idea that seems smarter to me if you have the option, you'd just again reset the codes but instead of making them actually represent the same cards, they give you some sort of digital currency you could turn into new cards if you collected enough.

    Game formats
    Again this depends a lot on if you're making a new or old game... in either case, I wouldn't try to branch out too much from the start, I'd try to focus on making the one really good game experience rather than trying to please a bunch of different rule sets. eventually you can branch out. I think the 3v3 game format would be my priority, and I would design cards accordingly since the 6v6 game format can be a long, I could see sticking with the standard 6v6. I also recommend looking into some form of sealed deck type deal, its a good way to sell packs and make common but less powerful cards playable in a format. but this requires some sort of pack coloation so probably not for the start.
    but i

    variable stats and variable energy this kinda just depends on the kind of feel you want the game to have, if your going for a more competitive game these are gonna be a mistake but I think its part of chaotic's charm every creature is unique gimic has a certain appeal especially with a more casual group of players, I could even see adding MORE variance if that was the way you wanted the game to go... its all about priorities I think.

    A banlist is something that's probably gonna come up organically I would start the game without one, even if you're using all the old cards, but I could see starting with a handful of extra bad cards off the table from the start. you'll definitely need a banlist no matter what you do because part of card design is pushing the boundaries of the game, and it's much better to push and make something broken than to just make a bunch of boring safe cards, so a banlist shows up.

    honestly overall the number one thing I(and most people tbh)  am looking for is, is it fun? if you make an exciting and interesting game, people will wanna play it, if you don't they won't, the details aren't the end of the world.

    anyway idk if anyone from chaotic will actually see this but best of luck! we're excitied to see what you make!

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    Whoa  Water Element you doing?
    You need to  Air Element out.
    Just because you were  Fire Element d doesn't mean you get to be mean.
    I mean is it even w Earth Element it?

    Chaotic Username : Metal
    Chaotic Coins : 42

    For the Future Health of Chaotic Empty Re: For the Future Health of Chaotic

    Post by Metal Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:33 pm

    The Plague of Variable Stats:
    I am writing this post to address one of the most prevalent problems, if not the most, in Chaotic cards; the issue of variable stats. In this post, I will address the problem, and give solutions I feel can fix the problem of variable stats.

    To begin addressing this problem, I will start off with an analogy. Two friends, let’s say Timmy and Johnny both open a box of Forged Unity for Christmas. Both Timmy and Johnny were on Santa’s nice list this year; that is, they both opened Chaor, the fierce. Timmy’s Chaor the fierce has 85 courage, 110 power, 50 wisdom, 50 speed, and 70 energy. Johnny’s Chaor the fierce has 70 courage, 95 power, 45 wisdom, 45 speed, and 65 energy. Regardless both players are happy with their pull, and put each respective card in their decks as frontliners. However Johnny’s Chaor, the fierce seems to always struggle; losing power challenges, such as ash torrent, against Timmy’s Chaor, the fierce, not being able to use Evergreen Tunic (and extremely valuable battlegear that requires 75 courage to give 20 energy, losing speed initiative (a very common initiative for prominent underworld locations, such as underworld city, or underworld colosseum), and last but not least Timmy’s Chaor, the fierce is able to use outwit while making the wisdom 50 stat check; thereby drawing out its full potential.

    In the above example, something is clearly amis. Both players opened the “same” card, yet experience a completely different quality of play when using that card, especially notable in a mirror match. Why should this be? Both players were happy to open Chaor, the fierce, but now Johnny is at a complete loss when facing his friends superior card. In Chaotic, save for extremely niche and often irrelevant situations, there is very little reason not to attempt to obtain a strictly better card. The secondary market knows this reality, and a card’s stats alone can cause a major price discrepancy.

    The Problem:
    In my above example, Timmy’s Chaor, the fierce has 70 energy and Johnny’s has 65. An example battle could go something like this; one chaor, the fierce used consuming flame, followed by firearm for a total of 65 damage. Disregarding gear, mugics, and possible location effects, this means that Timmy’s Chaor, the fierce can kill Johnny’s Chaor, the fierce in TWO attacks,while Johnny’s Chaor, the fierce would require THREE attacks. An entire turn of attack discrepancies for these very common attacks is very alarming; the player with maximum energy in this case gets AN ENTIRE EXTRA ATTACK just for having a better scan.

    The Solution:
    The solution to this problem is to use average energy for all cards. There is no clear way to establish a trade-off system between energy and disciplines, and I don’t believe such a system would be wise. Additionally, attempting to make more comprehensive benefits for lower energy cards would also be an extremely messy system, since it is generally common belief that higher energy means a stronger creature, and attempting to subvert this reality outside of a few niche and gimmicky situations (like melody of the meek) would cause chaos from a balancing perspective. Old cards should be errated so that their average energy is the energy applied for competitive play.

    The Problem:
    In my allegory I gave many examples in which variable disciplines was a problem with Chaor, the fierce; that being the weaker scan struggled an extreme amount in very common situations in both gameplay and from a deckbuilding perspective. Strictly better variable disciplines is a disgusting system that promotes a brainless acquisition of strictly better cards.

    The Solution:
    Contrary to what readers of this post up to now may have guessed, my solution to this problem is NOT to use average stats on future printed Chaotic cards. I find that every card having a unique identity to be an interesting idea (of course, it IS possible to find the same scan, I have multiple same scans myself). My solution to this idea is the implementation of a NET ZERO system for future cards. What this means is that the total of disciplines in a card would remain constant (ex: Chaor, the fierce’s disciplines would always add to 275), but the total can be distributed uniquely across different disciplines. An example of this would be as follows: a Chaor, the fierce with 70 courage, 115 power, 40 wisdom, and 50 speed. The total of these disciplines is the same as if the Chaor, the fierce had average stats, however now there is some tradeoff. This Chaor, the fierce would not make evergreen tunic’s 75 stat check, but would have a good chance of winning a power challenge against an opposing Chaor, the fierce or underworld creature. Current cards use a variation of +-10(a discipline can be 10 higher or 10 lower than its average), bringing the total combination of disciplines to 625 combinations. For my system, the variation would either remain at +-10 or +-15, giving a number of combinations of 85 or 231 respectively; not too far off from the original, while maintaining the game’s spirit of unique scans. A variation of +-20 would likely render some cards unrecognizable depending on distribution. Old cards (those already printed), should have their average stats applied in a tournament setting, to create and even playing ground for both the new and old players of the game.

    Why This Solution Works:
    For Casual Players:
    Casual players will be less likely to be discouraged from opening a bad scan. Opening a card you wanted, only to be crushed by the realization that card is ultimately inferior, is a devestating realization. Additionally, casual players unaware of the value of disciplines are easily preyed upon and taken advantage of by experienced sellers; tricked into trading a superior scan of a rare card, for an inferior scan of a rare card, worth less solely due to how the secondary market values stats. Such a game environment is very toxic for casual players.

    For Competitive Players:
    Competitive players will be further draw to the game, as essentially the Net Zero system creates a system that while all scans of a creature have equal merit, their usefulness depends on the meta. For example, in a meta prominent with underworld creatures it may be wise to obtain a Chaor, the fierce with high speed as opposed to high courage, to win vital speed initiatives. This creates a much more interactive and fun system in the competitive scene; rather than just a brainless “get the highest discipline possible’ mindset which is prevalent now.

    For Collectors:
    Collectors would be interested in buying product for these customizable scans. A collector may experience the most joy from collecting what they view as “the best” disciplines a card has to offer; for example a Chaor, the fierce which has its maximum power and courage, but minimum wisdom and speed, simply due to the mindset that its bigger stats are the more impressive ones. Additionally, collectors are often created from both casual and competitive players, so creating a game more fun and interactive for these two categories will draw more collectors likely to buy large amounts of product.

    For the Game’s Makers:
    As stated earlier, with a healthier game environment, the game will draw an increased amount of players. As the Game’s Makers do not profit off secondary market sales, the imbalance in price created between the variance in scan quality should not be a feature that this party should be interested in keeping. The current system of variance in disciplines is not what drives player’s to open packs; it is their love of the game. It is in the best interest of the Game’s Creators to maximize this factor, rather than encourage an inequality of card distribution, and resentment of stat distribution.

    In Conclusion:
    The current mindset of “open more packs if you want a good scan” is a lazy and shameless attempt to cover the underlying issue of the current system of variable disciplines. For a card to be competitive now, a competitive player would generally want to maximize or AT THE VERY LEAST get maximum energy and two of that creatures disciplines to be 5 off their maximum potential. Using AU is an example, that means this player would have to open 4500 packs to obtain their required scan. Again, this is BEING GENEROUS, most competitive players prefer at least two disciplines they want the most to be maximized. No one in their right mind would open that much product to find a single card. I hope upon the game’s revival this seemingly cash-grab system is rectified, into a system where ALL players and collectors alike can be happy with the cards they open.

    Last edited by Metal on Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:24 pm; edited 1 time in total

    Chaotic Username : Afrhite
    Chaotic Coins : 7
    Location : Montréal

    For the Future Health of Chaotic Empty Re: For the Future Health of Chaotic

    Post by Kool-Aid Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:08 pm

    Those are my opinions of the subject but I think its not a priority but still is pretty high up in the list to-do for Chaotic to come back stronger then ever

    Old Cards:
    I would like that the olds cards would still work, because it would be hard for some of us to just start over. If we were going to talked about the power of some of them, well there are clearly some problems, so much that we have to create a ban list and a limited list because some cards are so trouble at 2 copy in a deck that we have to restrict them to 1. Else well I like the olds cards, the format, frame, design etc a good for me.

    Old Codes:
    Back in the days it was awesome, it was futuristic and innovative, even today lots of card game don't do that so the idea taht you can have a 1:1 value online and real life is really amazing. Of course there is some problem with it, like the fact to sell them you have to hide the code to have max value and if you were unlucky a friend would  take your code meaning you lost value and stuff.

    A banlist is needed and need to be update on what combo could be broken and unhealthy for the game. Like I mention in my reviews of the old card, there are some card that like that don't do nothing but are the key to so many unfair one combat win the game combo. Again, mention in the old card section, some of them are ok to deal with when there is only one, but some of them at 2 a ridiculous, a example of the is Ursis, even thought I love the tribeless and stuff, Ursis is a solid card yes but facing 2 of them is almost impossible with the deck the community has build around him since Chaotic was shut down. To resume all that, yes a banlist or a list of restricted card is needed.

    Game Formats:
    I don't have much to say about the game format, worked pretty well and was fun. Maybe add more of them like only common cards can be played, you can only use cards from a set, and many others.

    Variable Energy:
    This is a problem, because a 10 energy diffrence between 2 creature battling is huge. If you have a creature that have maximum 55 energy but you have the one at 45, the 10 energy gap could have same you for a turn and finish the battle. Even thought I understand why this is there and love the idea behind it, its a problem for competitive tournament. So maybe, do that in tourneys you play with the average like that everybody is on a "equal" step.

    Variable Disciplines:
    Same for energy, not going to repeat myself because it is the same problem because you could play a attack that if you have 100 power you deal extra damage and win the game. So yeah same opinion has the variable energy

    I would like a system of code returning but I don't know how it would work and how you can make it work so it is more secure, maybe do like pokemon with a code of a virtual pack for the online game.

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    Chief of the Tribeless Rebellion
    Code Master Connor
    Code Master Connor

    Chaotic Username : Code Master
    Chaotic Coins : 1

    For the Future Health of Chaotic Empty Re: For the Future Health of Chaotic

    Post by Code Master Connor Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:44 pm

    Just a few quick thoughts:

    Old Cards
    I think old cards should be allowed. However, we definitely need a ban list.

    Old Codes
    This system should definitely not be used. I think everyone should get a certain set of all the cards online, possibly everything under super rare. They could then re-release the supers and ultras in another premium pack type release.

    Game formats
    Everything should remain mostly the same, with maybe some form of what magic does like conchors was talking about.

    We need an ever changing banlist, as it is very obvious certain cards are broken. I don't think there is too much disagreement here. Luckily, the discord banlist isn't too extensive with 22 banned cards out of over 1000 cards, I'd say that's pretty good.

    Variable Energy/Disciplines
    I think this is part of what makes Chaotic unique and I don't believe it should be changed.

    Chaotic Username : LuckyGoblin
    Chaotic Coins : 4

    For the Future Health of Chaotic Empty Re: For the Future Health of Chaotic

    Post by LuckyGoblin Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:28 pm

    Gonna include a few other things that I think are key to the revival, but also answer the ones listed in OP first

    Old Cards

    The old cards are something that I think should be kept in the past, almost entirely though reprints for more balanced cards would be a good idea for a "revised" style set, personally I'm of the opinion that the game needs a revamp to how cards are run, don't get me wrong i like the game, but the cards should be redone, more on that later, but for the most part, i'm of the opinion that the old cards should serve some sort of niche use, maybe alternate art for revised cards, but more or less just something that should be a novelty, not something that should be relevant to the gameplay at all as, as someone else pointed out, the old cards are hard to get, more or less impossible for some cards.
    As for physical old cards, they should be banned from the "modern" chaotic when we do get those cards, as, regardless of the power they have, they're just not around anymore so giving some access to something others have no way to access is just a bad call

    Old Codes

    I'll get more into how I think this should be done in the codes section, but as far as the old codes go, I think that they should stick around and be used for the aforementioned novelty use that the cards go to.

    Ban lists are important for keeping formats alive. We've seen FTK decks before, and at the end of the day, these cards are going to be designed by people, and people aren't perfect, so when something is inevitably broken, it needs to be banned to keep the game from being un-fun, but allowed in an unlimited type format so the cards aren't just not used. Along with that, as I already said, the old cards need to be banned or in some sort of a restricted format as they aren't available.

    Game Formats
    Not much to say here, the formats are fun. Only thing I can understand is adding alternate rulesets to the overarching formats, i.e. 1v1/3v3/6v6 unlimited/limited/standard, unlimited being all cards allowed, limited being the "new" cards when we get them, aside from a ban list, but just none of the old cards aside from those reprinted to fit whatever modern style chaotic takes, and lastly standard being the same way that magic the gathering does their standard set, a rotational set that allows only the most recent X sets, where X would be anything from 3-6 depending on the set card counts. Maybe rotate annually like Hearthstone does, where the new sets are introduced into the standard set and then at the beginning of the "cycle year" set annually around some arbitrary annual set release, the old sets cycle out. A set stays in for 2 years, the one it's introduced in and then one on the backburner.

    Variable Energy
    This is, in my opinion, a game killer. A card not having set stats makes the degree of randomness a bit too unfavorable to the average consumer. If I were to pull a Chaor, I want to be able to use it in the same way everyone else uses it, not have mine be effectively a pretty card in my collection because the stats aren't great

    Variable Disciplines
    I just made my argument against this. TL;DR: It's a turn-off to the average consumer.

    Personally I think that the codes can keep the same way the codes are generated, but what needs to be done is the new sets need to have set specific codes so we don't have to do any code collection for the old codes that have already been used, unless for some reason that data is something they have access to.
    Heres what i mean by that:
    take a typical code
    AB12 C3D4 56EF
    the sets already have set codes (Dawn of Perim = DOP, Forged Unity = FUN)
    so just combine the 2, new code for a reprint of FUN in the modern style would be
    FUN AB12 C3D4 56EF
    I think the codes are relatively secure, because if you think about it, any given code can be arranged 479001600 ways (this is called a factorial in math, it's the number of ways a given set can be arranged. since the codes are 12 digits, we use 12!), and that's just for a single code, using alphanumeric codes each spot in that 12 digit code has 36 possibilities, so low end (keep in mind i dont think i'm doing this part right mathematically, but the 12! thing is definitely right) we would have 36x12x479001600, which is 206928691200. 20.6 billion combinations. With set indicators that would be 20.6 billion codes for ~250 cards per set. So, even giving each card an individual 1 time use code would be fine, there could be literally 10 thousand of each card and we'd have a .001% chance to have the same code. Statistically this is actually a pretty high percent, we could introduce lower case letters which would correspond to 62 alphanumeric digits, plugging into the earlier multiplication but replacing 36 with 62 gives 62x12x479001600 or 356377190400, which changes the earlier .001% to a .0000667% chance.

    If for some reason that's still not a reasonable margin for error, QR codes are the modern code system, but i think i've given my 2 cents on codes

    Now onto some other topics that I feel are very important to the future health of Chaotic

    The game needs to be modernized. I don't think anyone is 100% happy with how the game was before, the primary problem being the random stats. Personally I like the way the game played, not speaking from what I remember but from analyzing how it works now because frankly i barely remember playing, it was very strategic with emphasis on board placement, gear, and mugic. The only random factor is the attack cards, and the stats in the old way to play the game. Removing the random stats would make the only degree of randomness in the game are the attack cards. This I believe is a bit too small for a typical card game, so lets say we introduce a mugic deck in some way, maybe 20 mugic cards, shuffled and you draw 6, and instead of each turn you draw another, lets say each combat each player draws mugic cards to fill their hand to 6 mugic cards. Suddenly the game has a nice blend of randomness in the attacks and spells (mugic), so the game is strategic in board placement and gear use but has randomness in how the combat works so you don't necessarily win because your deck wasn't reliant on the attacks

    I think the old cards need a reprint, I said this earlier, done with set and optimized stats and abilities that would be more fair to play with. Some cards were busted strong, some were not anywhere near as strong, finding a balance is pivotal to the survival of this type of game, and beta testing reprints of the old cards would be a great way to find that balance. We have people interested in the game, allowing them to play the game with beta tests of cards would be a good way to play the game, a good way to gauge interest in the game, and a good way to figure out what works and what doesn't, and adjust accordingly.

    Speaking of gauging interest...

    Gauging Interest
    For the game to come back stronger than ever, we need to have outreach. Developers need to communicate with the community as things go along, keeping us informed, and there need to be events for people to come out and have a fun time about everything chaotic. We live in an age where we have plenty of access to cons and other nerdy events, so being able to gauge interest at events like these is easier than ever before.

    But all of these things bring up an important issue...


    Reviving chaotic would take money. A lot of it, unfortunately. So if we had some way to donate money and/or buy merchandise, really just any way to help the cause, it would be much easier to get access to these sorts of things that would get the face of Chaotic out there and as a result get more people interested in it. Money makes the world go round, after all.

    I'm gonna stop here for right now, I might edit the post if anything else comes to mind but this is my take on what needs to be done, with a primary focus on funding. We know the revival's coming, so now there needs to be money thrown at the project to allow for a smooth revival
    Super Rare

    Chaotic Username : Alexrayboy
    Chaotic Coins : 289
    Location : Maryland

    For the Future Health of Chaotic Empty Re: For the Future Health of Chaotic

    Post by bobosmith01 Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:45 pm

    Dear Bryan Gannon, and to all staff of Chaotic:
    I must admit that Chaotic played the most minor of roles to me when I was a child. It was just a cartoon that came on, one that I watched, sure. I remember me and my friend talked about it. I remembered a few episodes: I only saw Season 2 ones, so I was very confused when I spent an afternoon on the 4Kids Chaotic Scanner, where you received messages and virtual cards from the cast of Chaotic, and saw Season 1’s style. It still kind of boggles my mind to this day.

    Pardon my strange, rambling and casual tone, but I was going through my old room one day, and opened an old piggy bank. It was in the shape of one of those small, rotund sort of dogs. And in it, I found a small, cardboard paper-made version of a Scanner. I wasn’t a member of Chaotic’s actual online service or anything, but I had a username and everything written on it: AlexRayBoy. ...I have no idea what that was my username, for neither Alex, Ray, or Boy has anything to do with me or my name, but it made me smile.

    To me, that’s what Chaotic was about. It was a cool fantasy world, with cool fantasy Creatures.

    My favorite memories as a kid was playing pretend: going on a quest to save the princess, or acting as the butler as me and kids at daycare playing were “House”, or going on a Pokémon Journey, right in my backyard. Even online, it was like that. I remember faking my age so I could play Runescape for hours on end. It was that innocent, but undeniably cool and fantastic nature of everything which made fiction awesome!

    When I discovered my cardboard scanner, one that I made myself, with no cards inside… I teared up. I went on a binge of all my childhood 4Kids shows. Sonic X, Viva Pinata, Gormiti, you name it. But Chaotic stuck with me, and not just because I found my Scanner or anything like that. It was just inherently fascinating: These Creatures were at, for all intents and purposes, war. It’s clear the show had a bias for Overworlders and really didn’t care for the Danians or M'arrillians most of time, for instance, but, 2000s kid show. I’ll give it a break (if the show DOES get a continuation, I’d love to see more of such explored) Potential assassination, political warfare, spies… Doing this in a “kid’s show” was gutsy. But I remember it, too, looking back on it.

    For instance, the first two episodes of Chaotic’s Season 2 open with a bunch of players exploiting the destruction of Locations for money, and an ambassador being infected with a parasite: basically, brainwashing (though I have heard theories of Raznus going along with the infection on purpose). That assimilation sequence in the Dromes still makes me wince. Even the cards reflect this, often showing intense prowess of the Creatures admist combat.

    What I’m saying is that the more “adult” nature of Chaotic is what makes it fascinating to me now, as an adult. Keeping that adult nature while still preserving the fantastic, cool aspects that even kids can swallow is great.

    I don’t have professional experience in this, so my advice is limited. You don’t see too many kids watching Steven Universe or Game of Thrones (mostly adult fanbase) or adults watching, I dunno, Shimmer and Shine (do people know what that is? My little niece watches it constantly), and, even now, I’ve never bought too many trading cards, and mostly I bought them because other people were…

    So, marketing might be difficult for me to explain, as I was more focused on the show versus the cards, which are the focus, but Chaotic is a vast land, full of potential. It’s fantastic. It’s adult. And that’s great. I want that. I need that. I think kids would enjoy it too, just like how I was able to recall it even into my teenage years. I’m sure they’ll go all nostalgic for it, too, and have a renewed interest, years later, just like I did. Please, keep that childhood innocence in you, forever! And keep the adult part of you, too. You’ll make a product greater than Maxxor himself!


    This is sort of a P.S. after I got my personal letter out of the way, just so I could touch on other aspects not included.

    As many people have pointed out, some are better than others. Keep balance in mind.

    Another thing to remember, trading card games rely on the booster packs, right? So anyone should be able to have a healthy deck, always. I remember when I played Pokemon TCG, and not getting enough Energy in the booster packs was a nightmare. It was basically impossible to make a deck by buying a few cheap booster packs, you’d need a starter deck...which was normally fine how it was. Bakugan like that too: the winner was whoever had higher power, unless your Gate Card said otherwise. You buy a couple that had low power? Sorry.

    A kid’s not gonna like that, man. No one will. They’ll just become disinterested. I know it happened to me. I’m not sure what the solution is, really, but...make sure people can get decks, and make sure what’s in booster packs is worth it.

    Please, get some analysts on your team. Business here is what’s going to keep Chaotic afloat, as much as I want it to just be the greatness of the show or cards.

    Make sure all tribes are as fleshed out as they can be! Lore or otherwise.

    Always remember, we’re here for you! We’re your long-running fans, and while what we want isn’t always practical or even good business, it’s certainly still a suggestion: if you ever feel like you want ideas, or just want to check up on us, you’re more than welcome to!

    Last edited by bobosmith01 on Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
    King A-Game Darini
    King A-Game Darini

    Chaotic Username : agame
    Chaotic Coins : 693
    Location : California

    For the Future Health of Chaotic Empty Re: For the Future Health of Chaotic

    Post by King A-Game Darini Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:03 am

    Sure I'll give my take

    Old Cards: I'm very happy that old cards are gonna be relevant and apart of the game. This is easily what everyone wants. Overall it's great!

    Old Codes: This can really make or break the future of the game, how they go about honoring codes in the future release will determine the secondary market entirely. I expect the launch to be a MESS of new players trying to get their codes in. If they dont have the staff or if the servers cant handle the flood of people this will not turn out well. I hope you guys are prepared and have a good plan to go about this. we want this but this is by far the most unpredictable element of the whole reboot.

    Banlist: The game is fundamentaly broken without a banlist

    We have been playing this game for years and all of the main moderators are in agreement (along with the grand majority of the playerbase through polls and tournament entries)
    We have summaries on why these cards are banned and why for the health of the game they should not be allowed.

    Cards such as Tonal Destruction Ramhavir,a nd Enre-Hepp high muge were all "Banned" on the old website because the coding didn't work so we weren't able to see just how insane these cards can get. Tournaments were just filled with Basic (some might say mindless builds) of Zamool/burn but through the use of T.C.O where all the cards are accessible. The game was played through a simulation of "Paper Play" with the official erratas written right on the cards and where every mechanic works. The game has been tested and the results are in. THIS GAME NEEDS A BANLIST. NO OTHER SUCCESFUL TCG DOESN'T HAVE ONE AND CHAOTIC ISN'T THE RARE EXCEPTION!

    Game Formats: ^ see above. You can have a format WITH and WITHOUT a banlist. As far as the numbers formats. 10vs10 lasts far to long and would require more bans.. it just would. 1v1 is kind of a joke honestly and should never see tournament or drome play. (Other than beta drome)

    Masters and advanced apprentice? Theyre fine as is. Apprentice is a fine teaching tool but I don't think it should be used in a competitive way but this is a minor concern.

    Variable Energy: Everyone hates this. The only card that cares about specific energy is Melody of the meek(and those varients like strike of the meek/kiru tunnels) this makes 2/3rds of all creatures UNPLAYABLE IN TOURNAMENT CAPACITY. I can't stress that enough. Getting an Ultra rare Chaor the fierce or Headmaster is the kind of feel bad that can make someone not even want to play anymore. I am not that going to cry about a min e chaor but I will feel really bad about it. The rates of getting an ultra are lower than getting a mythic in magic the gathering and this is not an acceptable buisness practice. 2 out of 3 times you're gonna be unhappy about getting a creature and that is bad buisness practice. The gimick of variable stats and enery should go. It's greedy and ultra pull rates should be higher. The math on getting a Max every stat ultra is so laughably large that it's gross.

    Variable Disciplines: This is fine! Keeps the unique aspect of the game without ruining gameplay and minimizes feel bads. Energy is the most important stat and should never have been variable. Could you imagine if Mugic counters were variable? Or epements? The idea is the same here its supposed to be what you scanned in perim so why wouldnt elements and MC be differnt. This and the banlist is the biggest concern for the health of the game but reprints and accessability are equaly important.

    Id prefer variables of 10 rather than 20 though.

    Codes: I already wrote on this.

    Reprints / Accessibility: I talked with Bryan on this at the Expo and we dissagree on the idea that cards should be reprinted. I am a firm believer that they should be reprinting, however I think that arts should be different along with the set symbols (obviously). Never reprinting cards after this long is gonna be a nightmare for new players to get into such an established meta and the only way to make that work is to make the newly printed sets SO broken that the old cards look bad in comparison. (Which will also ruin the game of course). It's a senario where everyone losses. Collectors,new players,old players and the company. We need reprints and collectors need unique arts to keep their value, Functional reprints are not a solution. Ultras/Supers need reprints as well..not just commons. To bring the message home i'll repeat functional reprints just break the rule of two and don't fix the problem. The secondary market (which are where collectors do buisness) aren't the target demographic to keep this game alive.

    My overall opinion going forward: Playtesting playtesting playtesting! They printed sets way to fast. Printing cards that don't function online especially cards at Ultra/Super rarity is honestly not acceptable. These types of cards aren't easy to get and if they dont function online then they shouldnt be printed and added to the game untill they work,If you can't get the coding right then just make a new card and add it and print the other one later in a different set.
    Sets shouldn't be printed until years in advance honestly unless you have a huge team of playtesters checking every avenue of the cards playablity and if you want to have online play EVEN MORE testing to make sure it actually works..

    My opinion on the show: More of Perim, less of chaotic itself. Dont get me wrong I love the matches and gameplay bit the biggest appeal to a lot of us besides the tcg is the enviorment and culture of perim and its tribes. My favorite arts are original Frafdo and Kolmo, purified.

    Kolmo purifieds background of a mipedian Bizarre is so visualy appealing. Locations in general spark my interest art wise because I love seeing the unique scenery of perim .

    The revival of the game could be seen as an interesting opprotunity. Season 1 and season 2 had different animation styles. We're on Season 3 and I think it would be quite cool if all seasons got different animation styles.
    This would make chaotic a very unique show and get people talking about it just for this. Come for the different animation styles,stay for the great game and world.

    Future mechanics: I love cards that push the limits of gameplay and feel like Mirages are just that. They really make the game play different in a great way.

    For the Future Health of Chaotic Madcap10
    This is an example, a card that breaks the mold without breaking the game. (With fun throwbacks to now or never,and keeps to the themes of the tribe. Remakeing this I'd lower the e by 5 or 10. But overall the idea works.

    I hope this helps no ones a bigger fan and wants this game to succed more than I and the Moderators/players that have been here all along. We've been running this game a long time while it's been gone. - A-Game.

    Players who should you should STRONGLY consider to be apart of the chaotic staff are Oracle Afjak,Chiodosin1,KingMaxxor4,Blitser and Myself. These are the core memebers who have been working so hard to keep this game's spirit alive and truly deserve some recognition.

    Last edited by King A-Game Darini on Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:18 pm; edited 2 times in total

    Chaotic Username : BrianG1
    Chaotic Coins : 18

    For the Future Health of Chaotic Empty Re: For the Future Health of Chaotic

    Post by BrianG1 Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:05 am

    I feel like for this game to be successful in a post-Hearthstone world, a lot of changes need to be made, and I'm prepared to list plenty of probably unpopular opinions about the state of the game.

    This might not be something people wish to hear, but I think we should just scrap old cards/codes/plans for cards and push towards a soft/hard reboot with the lessons learned about the power levels of all previously released cards. Allowing all old cards to remain relevant would be a huge disincentive for new players to join the game, as they'd have to either spend large sums of money to catch up on old cards, or it would encourage the design team to make increasingly more powerful cards or have a lot of reprints to invalidate old sets, which would anger older players. I think one of the main things to focus on in a card game nowadays is accessibility; the majority of players do not want to have to sink an egregious amount of time or money into a card game and would rather it be something they can check up on every now and then. Part of that would involve a larger transition into the online realm, something Chaotic was a pioneer of as it predated Hearthstone. Building an online game which is as or more generous than other online card games (Magic: Arena, Elder Scrolls Legends, Gwent, etc.) would be a huge incentive to draw a new crowd to a game many have never even heard of. I would really like to see the game become viable to play as an online exclusive game, with online rewards systems and purchasing options as well as potentially leaving the offline option and (NEW) code system available if there's still demand for it. But I just don't see a primarily physical card game succeeding today.

    A banlist seems like an obvious choice for any cardgame, as sometimes designers, even with copious amounts of playtesting, will not be able to foresee how problematic cards will be used by the community, and a banlist will be able to ensure that "unfun" or incredibly powerful cards do not decide the outcome of every game, especially in competitive formats. Another way to solve this would be to build a rotation, much like many other card games have, where only cards released within a certain time window or from a specific block of cards can be used at any given time in competitive and casual formats, with allowances for some additional formats where older sets/banned cards can be used.

    Variable energy/disciplines need to go. I get it's part of the whole "flavor" of the game but it feels instead like a really gross business practice. Essentially, 2/3 of the time you pull a card, you'll be disappointed, and that's just considering energy, as you can equally be disappointed by terrible stats completely stopping you from utilizing synergies with other cards, such as a Maxxor who can't meet the Wisdom Check on a Rockwave. I feel like doing away with variable energy would remove the feeling of a paywall behind certain cards, that you either need to be very lucky or spend a lot of money to get the right (good) copies of very expensive ultras and supers in order to be able to play certain strategies. It also just feels like it would help game balance in general, as with fixed disciplines, designers would be able to make specific choices about thresholds for checks for disciplines in other cards. If designers don't want to make a specific discipline check attack viable for a certain creature, they can make it obvious that it's not an intended interaction, rather than the state it is now, where it's up to luck whether Creatures will be able to utilize certain other cards. (As a whole I feel disciplines are underutilized as well, if you can't tell, and that more priority should be given to them in card design rather than what appears to be happening now, which is "Oh, it's an ultra, give it 100 in all disciplines but one!")

    Additionally, I feel more thought should be put into rarity and what it means for accessibility. In the game as it stands now, ultra rare cards are just better. There's no way other way of putting it. Sure, some lower rarity cards might have some niche uses for their abilities, stats, or mugic counters, but in general every ultra rare is better than any lower rarity card by comparison. Why would you use any Creature for your Muge in your OverWorld deck if it isn't one of the Ultra Rare Najarins, which are clearly the best Muges in the game? The only answer is that you can't afford those Ultra Rare cards. I want to see a system implemented where rarity means something. Many other games have a system like the following:

    Lowest Rarity: Simple, easy to understand, base-level mechanics.
    Higher Rarity(-ies): Slightly more complex mechanics. Can be stronger in general than lower-rarities, but does not have to be blatantly better at performing specific game mechanics, just different.
    Highest Rarity: Completely unique or interesting/game-changing mechanics which cannot be found anywhere else, but are not necessarily the best at what they do.

    In Chaotic, the rarity system feels (I emphasize FEELS here because it's what the average, new player will feel like) something like this:

    Common/Uncommon: Filler.
    Rare: Plenty of good supporting cards here (Mugic, BattleGear, Location, Attacks), but not the stars of the show.
    Super: Weird unique abilities which are ultimately filler. Also very strong Creatures which are have more disciplines, energy, mugic counters, and abilities than all that comes below it.
    Ultra: See Super, but even more disciplines, energy, mugic counters, and abilities for the actually good cards.

    A lot of this can arguably be solved by implementing things like the banlist or more game formats/rotations to ensure some cards can become or leave relevancy but I think more attention needs to be paid to why a card should be a certain rarity. Is it bringing something new to the table? Is it changing the way the game is played in a way a new player might not understand? Or is it just a pile of stats on a stick like Ursis?

    I might have more to say later so anything I write below here will just be some afterthought additions/edits or clarifications if I've rambled in ways that don't make sense.

    Chaotic Username : KingMaxor4
    Chaotic Coins : 2687

    For the Future Health of Chaotic Empty Re: For the Future Health of Chaotic

    Post by KingMaxxor4 Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:46 pm

    Complete the rules. The "Comprehensive Rulebook" is woefully lacking important answers to questions. Over the years, we've had to interpret based on extrapolating parts of the rules. In some cases, the answers just don't exist, and we've had to use Magic The Gathering's rules or come to our own conclusions. Additionally, not even all of the keywords had been defined in the glossary and we had to search for reminder text on cards to fill those in. Having people that are intimately familiar with the current function of the game and a background in the rules and function of other games will help complete the rules for existing actions and interactions, in addition to future proofing.

    I'd like for the "legendary" keyword to be removed as a deck-building restriction. I believe that the combinations of unique and loyal already provide sufficient ways of preventing bad interactions. But that's not even the case, the cards that have this word are in no way even overpowered/oppressive together. For the current cards, they can just be made unique.

    Unlike other card games, the second player in Chaotic is typically at a disadvantage without given any boost. (In Yugioh the first turn can't attack with monsters, in hearthstone the second player gets an extra mana card and an extra card, etc). I have a few remedies for this:

    Give the second player 1 Mugic Counter to place on any Creature they control (this can have huge tempo swings for certain decks though).

    Allow the second player to draw an extra attack card at the beginning of the game:
    (Any abilities that would cause them to discard/shuffle hand and draw 2 will reset their hand size to two)

    • place one on the bottom of your deck. 

    • after the first turn, discard one (they will have 4 attack choices to use during the first turn).

    • until the end of the game.

    Tied or unmet initiatives should go to the defending creature. Locations already are made to give advantage to the attacking player. When a location has an obscure initiative this allows a player to get the effect without the risk/trade-off of the opposing creatures striking first. This makes deck building more linear and games less nuanced. If the initiative is Danian and you run an OverWorld deck, in a equally tribal distributed meta you'd win 5/6 times. (At the very least, if two creatures meet the initiative, the defending player should get it. This is done in other games such as Risk where the defending role wins ties.)

    Get rid of reopening the burst. This rule is unintuitive, and unhelpful. It adds unnecessary complication to the game and has enabled the broken infinite enre-hep, high muge combo.

    Allow minions to play Mugic of their tribe. Minions are already forced when it comes to deck building. Making them only use generic Mugic, even further pigeon holes decision making.

    Don't make Invisibility cancel out Invisibility. No other tribe directly counters its own tribe's mechanic (Danians share the activated hive). 

    Change Disarm back into an innate ability:
    "While engaged, Battlegear equipped to opposing engaged Creatures lose all abilities and do not trigger." Adding layering to the rules (timestamped abilities) will prevent loops. 
    Change "Immune to Invisibility" back to innate:
    "Opposing engaged Creature's invisibility has no abilities."

    Support is an essentially useless ability. It makes OverWorlders with the ability functionally loyal (or is bad when they are in mixed armies). I'd propose opening up support to work for any adjacent Creatures you control independent of tribe.

    Allow infected creatures to either have creature type mandidblor or become Danian. This is flavorful to the lore of the show and also has interesting in game benefits. Currently Infection is only used as a means to the end of uninfecting for combos.

    Magic has the concept of an "intervening if". (Chaotic has no such rule in its CR.) This rule states that when you have an if statement between the trigger and the effect, you check the condition before the trigger is placed on the burst and again when it resolves. With the reactive nature of burst, having two checks makes certain abilities less usable. If you do add intervening if, please review all the cards that would fall under this and possibly errata the ones that would be significantly nerfed by double checking.

    Chaotic Username : lilmeth
    Chaotic Coins : 66
    Location : Ohio

    For the Future Health of Chaotic Empty Problems With The Old Game

    Post by lilsnoop Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:57 pm

    I heard that news that Chaotic might be back and people are already voicing their opinions on what they want to change.

    I remember that a few years back and even on this very site that Chaotic is the best card game because there is no ban list and the game is very balanced. Now I just want to focus on the balanced part. Chaotic had a very bad issue with this. Chaotic was very far from balanced.

    Attack damaged went from having fun to wiping you out with one or two attacks. It also didn't help that the M'riillains were broken when they first made their debut. The power creep was insane. So insane that cards with 50-55 energy was not relvent to be played due to the number of attack points a single attack can do.

    What I'm saying is that I hope that this game doesn't have a balance issue.

    Chaotic Username : Player
    Chaotic Coins : 1

    For the Future Health of Chaotic Empty Bring back the old sets

    Post by Jim Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:34 am

    Hey guys, do you think it's possible for you to bring back the old chaotic card sets when the franchise picks up again? I mean, the creator did say that the first 79 episodes of the show will be rerun to see if it can be popular after all these years and I figured that it would be a great opportunity for kids who didn't have a chance to experience the game to get into the game. Which is why I think it would be a great idea to bring back the old sets, so that new players have a chance to collect them like we did when the show first aired. I mean it would seem like a shame that new players might not get the same opportunities that we did. Also, there are still a lot of cards from the old sets that I really want to get so if you ask me, this will be a win for everyone. New players can get into the game and not miss out on the old cards and the old players can complete their collections much more easily. If that does happen, I would be very grateful for it.

    Sponsored content

    For the Future Health of Chaotic Empty Re: For the Future Health of Chaotic

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